My Swing (go on tear me apart)

http://picasaweb.google.com/TheBeechHouse/Sundowners/photo#5160231877151934610

Im in the white & Si who some of you know is in jeans (tut tut)

Col

I'm not going to report to know anything, just look at my handicap, merely to get the discussion going.  As discussed previously almost all swings can be made to work and it's what suits the individual.

Also being able to analyse a swing, to some degree, can only assist with your own game.  I've made some comments and would welcome people to put me right.  I'll be off to the range this week so will post my swing video.

I've grabbed a still below;

for me your right knee is locked out which surely removes some of the dynamisms in the hip turn on the downswing.

Regards, Darren. 

Thanks Darren, i think im over rotating. Not bad for someone of my age. In one of the videos the club face nearly hits my left knee

In contrast Si is only coming back to about 10 o clock on his back swing. He still hits it 270 to 300 yards and staright so i dont think he needs to change anything but what do i know.

Col

I have looked at the video but the swing is too fast for me to make an accurate assessment.

Looking at the still shot produced by Darren there  are things that should be worked on.

1. Overswinging is unnecessary and counter productive, so should be restrained if possible.

2. The left arm is not straight at the top of the backswing and the bend is probably caused by the overswinging.

3.The locking out of the right leg, in itself, is not that bad, but from the photo it seems as though the weight has not been transferred to the right at all, the left shoulder has dipped and that is where the weight has remained.

I would like to see Colins backswing somewhere between his current position and that of his friend Simon, whose shorter swing shows more control, albeit that he is using a shut face method.

In the video, because the weight has stayed on the left side on the backswing it is very noticeable that the top half of the body is leaning forward on completion of the swing with the right leg still relatively stiff.

I only wish my body would move like that.

Thanks John,

You can use the pause button on the page to slow the movement. I must admit i was suprised myself how quick my swing is. I think ill need to work on that. I find though that when i conciously try to slow it down i hit the ball with the toe of the club.  

Si suffers from a fractured vertebrae and this shows in the swing he has adopted. Still hes knocked almost 10 shots of his handicap this year so hes doing something right

These videos were shot on the range this evening where we found that no  matter what club we used or how hard we hit the ball it would not go over 160 - 180 yards. Even Si who can easily drive through most ranges we have visited. We tried some balls that we had in the bags and found that we added well over 100 yards to the distance. Is this well known that range balls fall short?

All range balls are made not to go very far, for obvious reasons.

As power is not applied until the right elbow passes your right pocket, all what has gone on before can be shortened, giving much better control and a consistant flight path.

I have had another look at the video but it is still too fast for me to suggest anything.

I will explain everything at the Southern Cup on the Sunday, if you are interested.

Darren, how did you grab a still?

Paused the video and then ALT print screen to get a screen grab then used some image edit software to chop down.

I'd love to be able to analyse a swing like JP, it's definately a basis to improve your own swing. I'm trying but it takes time and requires old fashion reading and watching

The other thing you notice if you pause the swings right, is that you are pretty flat Col at and around impact where as Si really gets his hips and left side through the ball which is I guess where he gets the distance from. 

Also to add, JP is right about overswinging.

I had a lesson at the end of the year to get me back on track, which I plan to continue this year, and have introduced a few simple swing changes notably the position of my arms to body on take away.  Helping with the slice!

Anyway it's a pretty dramatic change and obviously feels very strange at first, with the Pro I just worked on 1/4 back swings but the shots went straight and some good distance as I gradually speeded up the process. I've continued on and now have a 3/4 swing, not quite full, but am still working on it at the range. 

The other week I went to one of the indoor golf centres and rather than play a course I used the practice sessions to check out ball flight, direction and distance.  It was very interesting to see that with a 1/2 back swing I could almost get as far as with the 3/4 back swing,  the 3/4 backswing was a lot higher trajectory and 1/2 back swing did have a bit more speed due to confidence.    For reference I don't hit it that far but was getting a 7 iron about 145yards.

Next step is to revisit the Pro and hopefully use video analysis to carry on the good work.

Regards, Darren.

145 yards for a seven iron is good enough, Darren.

I myself have a very restricted swing now due to my shape and physical condition, but I have learned to adapt.

Colin, The overswinging looks as though it is because you not only turn the shoulders fully, but also the hips, when in actual fact the hips should not turn as much as the shoulders so that you will then feel the pressure of the coil in the back, this is the stored up power that you will need to hit the ball further.

In other words the hips should act as a resistance to the shoulder turn to enable a strong coiled up position at the top.

But you still hit a 180 yard 3 iron, straight, accurate and off the deck.

Not all the time, Darren, but nice to know that sometimes one gets it right.

and that's why we all love this game

John do the basics ie stance, address, ball position (no funny gags) look ok?

Can anyone suggest some software preferably freeware or shareware that i can use to slow my videos down, step forward etc etc

Thanks

Col

Quote by Colin

John do the basics ie stance, address, ball position (no funny gags) look ok?

Looking at you straight on is always difficult, especially when the photo is of such poor quality. but my observations are that you stance looks fine, maybe the ball just a fraction to far back in the stance, Your grip looks very strong, especially in the  left hand and it appears to me that your shoulders are slightly open (As most peoples are), I would suggest keeping the right arm passive and inside the left arm, this will help to swing on the inside.

Basically not much wrong with your setup, just minor adjustments.

This could be John P's new forum section.

'How's my Swing'

We all post videos of our swing, and get JP to analyse it. 

Col, check out Ben Hogan's 'Five fundamentals' book.  If memory serves me right some great tips on set-up to assist with hip turn and positioning of your knees, in relation to some of JP's comments above.

Danny sounds like youve got your own mini johnny P holding the camera. Hes right though very quick in the downswing almost too quick to catch with the pause function. I was looking specifically for the 2 errors pointed out on my own video. Position of club at the top of the swing and shifting the body weight before the club hits the ball. It appears to me that you have both of these down.

Dannys swing is one of the best I have come across in a long, long time and Ii have seen it first hand, having played a round with him at Silvermere. He does not overswing, transfers the weight perfectly and finishes in a nice high finish.

Why is he still 19 handicap? it is because he wants to hit everything flat out and by doing so, loses the control where it is needed, irons into the green.

I would like to see him shift to a threequarter swing with his irons and reduce the power by 30%.

We should call this feature Swing-Factor & Johny P could be Simon Cowell. Darren you get to be louie Sharon or Danni

BTW the software suggested above is awesome for a free download.

You know im only kidding, Have you got any words of wisdom for my next session at the range?

I agree about that software - cracking stuff.  I'll have to find me a video cam and get my swing recorded.

If I had not wavered from my game plan today in the club Stableford, I would have broken 80, as it is I had to settle for an 81. Nowhere near good enough to win, but I am still trying. Tomorrow I am going to play Batchworth Park in Rickmansworth, hope to win the fivers on offer.

Just one of the many example swings held in the softwares database. Much like mine i think you'll agree

http://picasaweb.google.com/TheBeechHouse/Sundowners/photo#5160654712387258642

Col

Thats an old video of my swing. Have tried to slow it down, and gripit ligther, which is helping a bit. Need to start finding a few greens now.

You can't miss them Danny, they're those big flat things at the end of the fairways.

Christ John, 13 strokes better than my best and you SETTLED for it!!!!  How you have the nerve to complain about your body giving up I will never know.  Great score and I hope you don't hurt too much today. 

Hope I can get myself to your current level one day, don't think I will ever get myself to the heights you once had.   

Because I won the money last time, I had to play off 15 today at Batchworth Park but still managed 37 points, which, once again, was good enough for the fivers, another two shot cut for the next one, possibly on Friday, if it is not raining at Milford Golf Club, Guildford.

If you ever saw me drive, you would laugh your socks off, but by the end of the round I will have played to my handicap, all down to my consistent iron play and short game.

I am sitting here totally knackered, the course was a bit hilly and the par fives were too long for me. My battery gave up for the last five holes, so virtually had to push the trolley. Need a new battery, better get one.

Chris, if you need any help, just holler.

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLPPPPP!!!!!

Be great to get some of your time at the N v S John.  I'll be coming up on the Sunday with the little lady.  Consistency is my main enemy.  My golf game is like the little girl who had the little curl.  When it's good, it's very very good, but when it's bad, it's horrid!!!  Unfortunately it's the latter more than the former and varies from hole to hole. 

So, Chris, you have just admitted that when your game is good then it is very good. This shows that you do have the ability to play nice golf.

Getting round a golf course in a good score is not that difficult if one thinks clearly, does not make rash decisions in club selction and most of all, plays the percentages.

Even Tiger does that when he has got himself into a bit of trouble.

Thinking about this game logically, then almost everybody is capable of playing bogey golf and it is not essential to drive miles to achieve that standard. An Excellent short game is all about feel, but can be taught, and when we meet at the match I will give you an Iron swing that will consistently have you aiming for the pin, all the time.

It requires no strength, as I don't have any.

I will be there on the Sunday so will have a look at you.

After the match on monday John if you please . Please resist that compulsive urge to help until after weve trounced the oposition. 

I did not realise it was that serious.

Old wounds John old wounds

Have a look at the feature Darren has added. John perhaps you can offer me more advice based on the stills darren has provided. See link below

Well done Darren, another great addition to an already superb site.

http://www.golfshake.com/video/watch/343/My_golf_swing.html

Can you do that to mine?

I can indeed, will add the feature on the site in the next week or so.  It will then just be an automatic process.

Do you have the original video file ? if not I can grab from video above. 

Now done.

Page needs some tweaking and some other stuff but you get the idea.

Danny, also had to chop your video down due to length.

http://www.golfshake.com/video/watch/1/My_Golf_Swing.html ;

Not sure about my weight transfer here.

OK, Danny, I have closely looked at the photos again and the sequence shows that you have transferred the weight correctly on the backswing and also initiated the weight transfer at the right moment in the downswing and that is why you have finished in an on balance position.

Your problems are not your swing, You know it and I know it.

What do I know but when I watched Danny's video in slow mo the weight transfer looked pretty good.

I'll post a comparable swing shortly that I've seen recently of a pro. 

Col, what do I know.

Just to show differences in swing see below for just before impact you can see the difference in rotation. Bit difficult due to angles of footage.  Danny seems to be getting through the ball compared to the other shot

I have not yet seen Colin, but Danny is a powerful striker who really should be able to tame this game.

I have a weak mind though

Just come back from the range (been as many times this week as i have in total previously) and have started with the 1/2 to 3/4 back swing (or 1/8 compared to my original ) found that initially i was hooking the ball, something which i have never done in my life. So i took the minor adjustments out of my grip which i have used recently to cure my slice and then seemed to hit the ball consistently straight.

Distance wise i lost at least 30 yards of my 3 wood but found that i hit every one staright down the middle which was novel for me. Worked through the bag just checking my sights and everything seems to be in order just have to take about 2 extra clubs more than usual but this is something i will get used to, although my wedges were about the same, just slightly less height. 

Finally after i had found my groove i tried to shift my weight forward in the downswing but couldnt quite get the hang of this finding that i was employing a three step movement take the club back, shift hips left, bring the club down.

I found the whole excercise quite interesting and was amazed at the distance that could still be achieved with just a half swing.

Gonna take this on the course with me this Sunday and try to resist the urge to let rip and see what this does for my score.

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will post another video once i have refined evrything a little more.

With regards to the comparison above, i can see where my errors lie and thats what i am working on. With regards to power, i am never gonna be the biggest hitter especially compared to Danny who is about a foot taller and 8 stone heavier than i am. No offence intended Danny. I saw Danny playing a few holes the day before last years NvS and i am also suprised that he plays of such a high handicap, Im sure a few more lessons from Big Johnny P will see this handicap come shooting down over the next year. Hoepfully ill be right behind you but i doubt it.

Cheers Col

Colin,

When I had the first of my course of lessons a few weeks ago, the first thing the pro did with my swing was shorten it to about 3/4.  I lost about one club in distance but was much more consistent.  The other thing he said was I try to hit the ball instead of sweeping it off the turf.  Apparently these are common errors and while it feels weird to make the changes, it does make things much better and I'm sure I'll get used to it.  Looks like you have found the same results without paying for someone to show you - fair play to you. 

Stick with it mate and the South may have a bandit in waiting (I'll be watching you closely!)

Thanks Chris, lets hope so

Have you played a round since you changed your swing? how did it go?

Col

My first lesson changed my address and the second my swing through to strike (my follow through was left alone).  I then went straight down the rangeand hit 100 balls, working on what I was taught.  Then came the schoolboy error - I played the following day.  My body just wasn't used to using those muscles in that way, I was aching by the sixth and in pain for the next two days! 

When I took my time and concentrated it made a big difference, especially with my long irons  but I was still inconsistent (mainly mentally).  I need to avoid the course and be a range monkey for a couple weeks to build up some muscle memory (and tolerance) but I'm sure it will have a positive effect on my game.

Chris,

I went to a range I knew had mirrors in front and to my right.  I practiced the key positions without a ball (address, top of backswing, etc) using the mirrors to make sure I was in the right place and trying to remember the feeling of ach one.  Then I put the ball in the way and hit a few.  After a dozen balls, I rechecked and corrected where I had slipped and hit a dozen more.  Repeat until out of balls and in lots of pain.  You'll find that each correction is less than the one before. 

Thing is Chris you will have a natural swing as does everyone.  I'm sure your isn't as bad as mine.  We have to 'unlearn' that and teach orselves a proper one.  Unfortunately, if you don't keep on top of it you then you start slipping back into your natural swing.  That's why the old faults are starting to manifest themselves. 

If the pro teaching you hasn't picked them up as a problem yet, then they can't be that major. 

Don't try to fix too much at once Chris.  Pick two or three and work on them until you're consistent on them then go onto the next.  Trying to do too much in one go may be why you're slipping back so quick after your lesson - too much to think about.

When I was a member of a club for a long time I could tell anyone from a distance by their swing, which tells me, that once one has a swing it changes very little, unless a constant effort to change it is worked on.

The flight of the ball will tell you what position you were in at contact and a good teaching pro should be able top then detect the probable cause.

It is this correct diagnoses that a lot of the pros fall down on and they usually end up giving you a fault to correct a fault. Not the way to go IMO.

Players who have been playing for years are much harder to work on than beginners as they don't always understand what is being said to them as it is quite often not put in a way that registers with the player.

I have had lessons when I have felt the need, and only in a very few cases have I learned something to my advantage.

The swing should not be complicated and I find that natural rythms seem to work the best. 

Anyone swinging differently to their natural rythm will, most of the time, produce poor shots. Some shots will be OK as we all know that any method, at times, will hit a good shot.

Consistent striking requires a consistent swing, not only in tempo, but on the correct plane (Most important) and from a correct setup position, where the stance, the grip and alignment are also correct.

One of the most common faults is bad alignment (Shoulders always open at address). This makes it very difficult to get the swing plane correct, as it is already on the outside on the backswing and a concerted effort to get it on the inside causes just as many problems, far easier to align correctly in the first place.

Gary Player once said in his comic strip he used to publish, I believe in the Daily Express, many years ago, that the path of the hands on the downswing is inside that of the path of the hands on the upswing. Still true to this day.

I get told to slow my tempo down all the time by friends. I had a few lessons some years back, and the pro said my tempo was fine, thats when I stopped listening to my friends.

John P gave me some sound advice, he told me to try swinging at 80%, which makes alot more sense.

What I said, Danny, was that a person with such natural strength as you possess does not need to hit the ball flat out all the time. You drive the ball exceptionally well, but on the day I played with you, your iron shots were just not hitting the greens, which is a travesty after you have rifled the ball almost 300 yds down the fairway.

I don't like to see iron shots hit so hard and high that it is difficult to guage how far they are going to go.

Iron shots need control, as they are the ones that are going to set you up for birdie chances and at worst, just a two putt.

You must hit the green with every club less than eight iron and I see no reason why you can't.

What I was saying was other friends for years would say, 'you need to slow your tempo down' which really meant nothing. But when you told me to swing 80%, that made sense.

1st round with half swing 7 ,6, 9, 7, 5, 5, 6, 5, 3, 53, 7, 6, 8, 8, 4, 5, 5, 8, 7, 58, 111

Was an awful round, punctuted with some decent shots. The swing that i have practised on the range mats just wouldnt cut through muck leaving me an extra approach shot on every hole bar the 9th (played as the last) on which i played 2 balls and holed both for 3. other than that its back to the range for some more practice.

Also like chris mentions above i find that im aching much more than usuall from the alien swing ive been using today.

Colin, here is a swing to watch.

Whilst he may have had a few issues perfecting the swing over the years, from what I have read, you can't doubt the technique of Ben Hogan.

http://www.golfshake.com/video/watch/344/Ben_Hogan_Golf_Swing.html ;

His record speaks for itself, a lovely smooth action giving him time to do everything needed in the swing and a perfect example of how the engine room works.

That is a thing of beauty.

Go on feel free to rip it apart.  Where does it all go wrong ?

Looks like I my move my left foot to early on the downswing almost slipping causing the chopping/sweeping action out of the tempo flow.

http://www.golfshake.com/video/watch/353/My_Swing_Iron_shot.html

The swing system's now also been updated to split out the swing gallery and introduce a slow motion swing gallery from the images.  Looks okay but quality down to video footage.

Anyone interested in a flakey video showing Tiger Woods' golf swing this is now also online. 

Your arms are in a better psoition than mine at the top of the back swing  

But i have more hair, just

How do we know.  You've got a cap on and your avatar is a character from the Marvel Comics. Your just jealous of my added aerodynamics. 

What character would that be darren?

You've both got more bottle than me, trust me my swing should never be seen, and I might just beat Darren on the hair, just....