weekend membership

how about having a weekend membership at golf clubs, people can play the 5 days and then people can have a 7 day if they like but people that can only play at weekends can join the club and bring in money and not spend it playing other places

Nice idea but I bet it wouldnt be 2/7ths the price of a full membership.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Dave. Obviously it would be 2/7's of a normal membership as your looking to play at the premium times.On paper Karl it seems like a good idea. From a business point of view though you have to look at 2 main points.1. The clubs would stand to lose 5/7 day members in favour for a weekend membership.2. The increase of weekend membership would be big thus making it hard for members to get a tee time on weekends. It would therefore also see a decrease in visitors paying green fees.

true matt but the extra money they would get from memebers on weekends would make money over the bar and you would find that most clubs have more 5 days than 7 days and at weekends they should look at how many members they have play on  a saturday and a sunday it makes you think that some clubs need to move into the modern world and remember people do not have cash to burn

What a load of whingers.

sorry john what does that mean

What does that mean/ Karl. Golf has been played for a very long while with membership of a club being the main goal of the aspiring player.

Believe it or not but I have been a member of a club throught my playing life and, yes, I have paid 7 day memberships when I have had to work all week and even week-ends. This is how it has always been done.

If you don't like that then you are free to pay and play whenever you feel like it, but it is far cheaper to pay an annual membership if you are serious about your golf. But I get the impression that for you it is just a pastime to play when you feel you are available to play.

I join a club so that I play with like minded members and not have to worry about the course being full up with players who just do not appreciate what club golf is all about.

A golf club that needs green fees to survive is not a club that would appeal to me.

Currently I play MOnday, Wednesday and Friday each week, do you think I should only pay for those three days?

JohnI can see where your coming from. But you also have to understand that times change and things change.By lableing certain clubs the way you do doesn't mean they are not well run clubs?You have the right to either be a member or be a paying visitor? Does it mean that because I am not a member of a club I'm not serious about my golf??Fact is that some 'well run' members clubs do need to attract visitors to keep the ball rolling especially when times are tough for many. One other point. I don't need to be a member to play with like minded golfers. I use golfshake for that. 10 years ago that wouldn't of happened. Times change.

john i think matt is right times change and if clubs live in the past then they will die like the older members do and young blood has not been allowed to join the club, i love to play golf but working till 7 pm during the week i cant play on a weekday,  weekend is better for me and if a local club to me was offering a weekend membership then i would join it to play with diffrent people i have played many clubs on weekends and there is no one in the club house, they need to be more towards family life and not a closed mans club i have a club near me and they want over £1000 with joining fees ect and i will not pay to play on that course plus why do you think tee times is doing great clubs need people to play on them to keep them going

Yes, Karl, I am an older member and will no doubt be dying soon, but that will not prevent me from playing the game the way I have always done, as a member of a club.

It sounds to me as thought the courses you are referring to are of the new build and have no  history at all, hence the quieteness you are experiencing in the clubhouse at week-ends.

Just remember that you are indeed fortunate to even play at all, because playing to 28 handicap fifty years ago(Handicaps then were amaximum of 24) would mean you would never have been allowed to play at a proper members club. In fact getting membership required a minimum of 18 handicap in those days. I cannot see why you are complaining as you have a lot more choice than I ever had.

I've got to agree with John. I have a 5 day membership but on average I play twice a week. does that mean I should be able to claim 3/5 of my annual membership back ? No club will do that ! The nearest thing you could get would be the DeVere points system, where you pay £295 for 100 points and spend those points on games.It costs approx 8 points per game at weekends so you would get approx 12 or 13 games , then you would need to buy more points. However, they sometimes do a deal where you would get extra free games included.

John,

You say "I get the impression that for you it is just a pastime to play when you feel you are available to play".  Whilst this was aimed at Karl and may or may not be true, for many this is very much the case.  Not everyone aspires to be a scratch golfer, or even a bogey golfer, and for many they just enjoy being out in the fresh air with friends enjoying this wonderful game.  I know this doesn't tally with how you play the game, but not everyone is as gifted as you and some will lose the love of the game should it become a challenge rather than an enjoyable game.  My two regular Sunday morning playing partners in my early golfing career have both given up the game because in their drive to improve they stopped enjoying it. 

As I'm sure you can appreciate having been a working man most of your life, with some people having family commitments too, this means they can only play at weekends.  For many of these the cost of full membership works out more expensive than pay-and-play, even at the course they wish to join.  The simple economics of it means they don't join. 

I think what Karl is suggesting is that membership may be increased at some clubs if they offered weekend only membership.  I'm sure that this would be extremely popular, even though the cost would be 50-75% of full membership and could change peoples mind about joining.  HOWEVER, there will be many 7 day members who would also swap to a weekend membership and I think that that the net effect would be and increase in members but a drop in income for the club and tee times being almost impossible to get at weekends

Chris, your last paragraph answers the question, it will not be a viable proposition.

It might be of interest but I also had to go to work, doing many more hours a week than probably anyone on this forum, yes, I had young children to clothe and feed and yet I still managed to become a member of a private golf club.

Pay and play will never work out as cheap as a membership based on the same number of rounds played.

Everyone only played week-ends and midweek evenings on the summer,

You yourself, must be realising by now what a wonderful deal you have at Minchinhampton.

I am getting fed up with the constant moaning about having to pay to play this game, when it is cheaper than being a member of a health club.

It is not my fault if playing the game causes friction in the household.

A week-end playing golf in my days was at .least playing four rounds, of course today, what with the baggage that gets taken onto the course only one round seems the norm. Again, not my fault.

John. I know you feel strongly about this subject. But I don't think Karl was moaning about the cost of playing. Simply making a suggestion about how clubs might make changes to suit more folk. You can't compare playing golf to anything. Personally yes I could be a 'weekend member' but I also made the point that I wouldn't be financially viable for the clubs.

John,

I know your history and I understand your views.  I work all week like you used to and during the summer, due to having a very understanding wife (who takes the opportunity to watch garbage she knows I hate on the TV whinge free), I am able to play one or more evening per week and at weekends.  For me a 7 day membership makes perfect sense, especially at the club I have it at with the excellent facilities and two courses.  However, if I was only able to play a couple of times per month I would struggle to justify it

I think you may have misunderstood Karl's suggestion as moaning when it was actually just a suggestion of how to appeal to a wider audience

There are hundreds of courses for the wider audience, unless they are prepared to adhere to the codes of a private club then the wider audience clubs are their only source of play.

john i think you have lost the plot  along the way, 1st i am not moaning about private clubs it was an idea fro all clubs to bring in new blood and may i point out that if a club wants to keep its tie and jacket then what will happen in the long run, i can play lots of places near me, tytherington, shrigley hall ect but that is putting money in clubs that need it sport is like anything if it does not change then it will die and adrian yes you play 2 times a week but if you had a chance to play at weekends only i bet 90% of people would take it up as family comes first

The 90% of people would not be considering family first, should they take up this idea of yours.

I suggest a visit to my neck of the woods, Surrey/Berkshire where proper golf clubs exist, are doing very nicely, and have no need to advertise green fees or reseort to ridiculous suggestions from the public.

I may well have lost the plot, but seeing as I did not agree with the plot in the first place, then I feel I have lost nothing. Golf does not need to change it is the newcomers who need to adapt to a game that has been around a very long time.

all i can say john what happens when the older people can not play any more and the younger people have been told not to bother coming if private clubs want to have a closed shop then it will just be like anything people will never go back there, but also some private clubs would be very happy to have society days golf should never be a closed shop

John touches on the point that around where he is, Surrey/Berkshire, the demand outweighs supply and the clubs have no problem attracting members. Anyone who lives in and around a major city will have experienced something simialr, i.e. all the top clubs and most of the others have little problem attracting members.

However, out in the provinces things aren't quite so sweet, and clubs are turning to alternative offerings to attract members. I know of several private members clubs that have created different membership catagories in an effort to attract new members. One has gone further than the others by creating a catagory that recognises different lifestyles. They have a type of membership that allows access to the course at certain times through the week AND a number of Saturday/club comps. It also has the flexibility for the member to buy extra Saturday comps.

My job is the same as it was 10 years ago but the time available to play golf is very different. Once upon a time I'd fit in a midweek game + an evening or 2 + a Saturday. Nowadays its 9 holes maybe one evening a week + Saturday. The rest of the time its work, work or work. I've retained full membership because I get a lot more out of the club than the golf but I can fully appreciate the need for other offerings for other golfers.

We had a similar interesting debate from Gavin on Equality

I can see the need for some clubs to review their current membership system but the idea of weekend only golf maybe a step to far.   This is almost akin to turning golf clubs into just sports/leisure clubs and golf clubs are/or should be so much more than this.

Now whilst I agree some clubs maybe need to look at some more strategic ways in attracting new members the idea of following the gym membership model is completely flawed.

Really don't think it would work.  Competitions that take place at the weekends would render a lot of weekends busy, and weekend members not able to play if the course is shut.  My club doesn't even have 5 day members (i don't think...) so it is one price, and you can play whenever...which is how it should be

where do you get a gym memership from?, the point am saying is most clubs i see have 7 and 5 day memberships 5 day being weekdays and 7 being weekends included, but the cost on having to buy a 7 day when you mkay only play at weekends does not make much point to me as soon as people look at whats happening in the world and people just dont have the money to join clubs that want silly money unless you are full of cash its ok, but how many clubs do you go past and see the course empty at weekend i know it costs lots to keep clubs going and they need to charge the amount they do, people are just going to go to teatimes.co.uk and book using that your so called saturday hackers will be at the local muni

looks like this is going global now just seen ot posted on facebook page of a golf club

As an existing 7 day member of a private club I don't think that offering a weekend membership would work.

If as people say time is the main struggling factor to get a game then I can't imagine these people sitting around in the bar afterwards chatting & having a pint so there would be no extra income just lost income from the reduced fees.

If you offer weekend only why stop there why not offer Mon / Weds/ Fri or just Mon / Fri.

It won't work. As John points out there hundreds on Muni's that are available for just the weekend players & most of these now offer some sort of membership so you can obtain a handicap.

If this happens then why not also look at introducing a car tax scheme where you only pay to drive at the weekend!?!!!?!

sorry john you are missing the point i dont want to play on the local muni i think my game is past that its just an idea for clubs to make that bit extra cash to keep them going as you will find most 5 day people dont work or work maybe shifts at night so they can play most people are not going to be able to play once the clocks go forward at night time, plus i have my handicap from golfshake and why would they not make exrtra money over the bar if 4 ball goes in afterwards they would have a few drinks and even food its just the same old thing golf clubs are stuck in the past and need to bring the 21 centrury to it

If you don't want to play at the muni then you have no option but to pay a 5 day or 7 day membership.

So why would the clubs offer a weekend only membership??

Your missing the point.....clubs won't make more money, they will lose. What they need to do is attract loyal members who will be there for the duration, not members who are only willing to pay pittance & then probably move on when it suits.

As a matter of interest how much are you willing to pay just for weekend membership??

how are they going to loose money if people play every weekend at there local club and not travel all over to play? and in the end they are there for life than move club to club,

i think you would have to pay in the range of £200 to 300 for the year

It is achieveable. First of all lets assume that the only clubs that are struggling for members go down the road of offering this type of membership. If their annual subs were £900, and a weekend membership is 104 days, pitch the membership price at £375. The extra £'s cover admin and handicap mgt. If the club had 20 vacancies, only offer 10 weekend memberships and retain the other vacancies for full members. And there's every possibility that the weekenders would convert to full once they've had a taste of ther club - some clubs call these "taster memberships" and restrict them to 4 months.

By limiting the number of weekend memberships you won't get loads of members changing from full to weekend, and potentially you'll make an extra £3,750 in subs.

how are they going to loose money if people play every weekend at there local club and not travel all over to play? and in the end they are there for life than move club to club,

Well for a start you will probably have existing members switch from a 7 day or 5 day to the new 'weekend membership'. So if we say an average 7 day membership is £900 & your suggesting £300 for a weekend membership then there's a £500 loss straight away.

What makes you think that pay paying £300 for a weekend membership will have members stay there for life??? Me personally I think for a weekend membership where the course will be busy you need to place a premium on it so I would set the price at around £600.

What happens if the club down the road introduces a 'weekend membership' & you want to play there?

thank you brian i new it was a good idea

Brian,

At my old course they introduced 2 schemes to give people a taster.

• Twilight membership where you could play as much golf after a certain time for 3 months. you weren't allowed to enter comps etc.
• Associate membership - where if you were already a member of a private club you could join for a reduced price but you were limited to times / days etc. This was aimed at people whose home club was miles away from their work but our club was near by. So the cheeky after work game became a viable option.

Not sure what the take up was but they made sure that the existing members were not affected by it in terms of course too busy etc.

Karl,

Brians idea is a good one BUT only because he recommends placing a restriction on the length of time you can stay as a  'weekender'

it maybe but it gives clubs the chance to look at ways to keep memebers and get new ones and you have to remember that people with younge kids will want them to come and play when they are older and they can be the new rory or tiger or if a girl who ever is a top lady golf player (dont watch ladies golf)

sorry john you are missing the point i dont want to play on the local muni i think my game is past that its just an idea for clubs to make that bit extra cash to keep them going as you will find most 5 day people dont work or work maybe shifts at night so they can play most people are not going to be able to play once the clocks go forward at night time, plus i have my handicap from golfshake and why would they not make exrtra money over the bar if 4 ball goes in afterwards they would have a few drinks and even food its just the same old thing golf clubs are stuck in the past and need to bring the 21 centrury to it

So now you are a golf snob, too good to play on a municipal. I know plenty of great municipals to play.

Club membership is a yearl;y subscription and you either agree with it or you don't join.

21st Century, you say. personally I would rather go back 50 years when golf was affordable for all and those who could play had no problems in joining very good private clubs.

why am i a snob? i have played local municipal near me altrincham, regent park in bolton but i like to play at the better clubs as the course is 9 out 10 times better than the local municipal  but why could you not pay £300 for the year to play at weekends only, times have changed over the last few years people dont have the extra money to splash out on a all singing club with shirt and tie only, and also clubs have to be the same for women players, we can go on about this till the cows come home if you like

Well, the cows do eventually come home.

Everyone is limited to what they can do by their disposable income. After rent and council tax mine is the princely sum of £180 per week. I will admit it is tight but I still manage to maintain my membership.

You do not really understand how traditionalists think about the game and I am wasting my time attempting to educate you.

John, you've touched on something very close to my heart when you mention traditions. There's playing golf, and I understand and remember how difficult it was when I had a young family, and then there's all the traditions that come with established golf clubs.

I love Captain's Drive-in on Jan 1st, followed by the speech, buffet & drinks. The Burn's night dinner, toasting the haggis etc. The St George's night dinner, inc "The Charge" followed by Jerusalem & Land of Hope and Glory. League matches and Club Championship day et al. The Autumn Dinner, and the Sportsman's Dinner..... is it any wonder why I'm so cuddly when you see all the dinners listed.

And the difference between playing golf, and being an active member in a golf club...

Karl,

Until you have been a member of a private club & paid the annual subscriptions for many years you won't understand our points.

The kind of clubs you mention that are struggling & may need to offer various memberships will eventually IMO lose the traditionalist member to other clubs & will be filled with people like yourself who only want to play at weekends & don't want to pay the normal price for membership. Good luck to them.

Just for the record most clubs these days don't require shirt & tie to enter the clubhouse. 

john which part dont you get i only play weekends because i work monday to friday so why pay a 7 day when i can only play 2 days, what points dont  understand that people pay somtimes silly money to join a club and things dont change because it the way its always been i dont think you see what i am saying one bit

...and the club could rent out the 5 day members lockers over the weekend, more money!!

Where to start with this one. Never seen it so heated on here!!

Firstly, as for knocking municipals - I've seen plenty of private clubs stink compared to the local muni and strictly speaking St Andrews is a muni - dont think you'd snub playing there in a hurry.

As for weekender memberships - if these were opened to the masses (I know its been said, but to review) the following will happen:

• A number of people paying full subs will reduce there fees
• This will be 2 fold, as clubs would most likely open up a 5 day membership where they may not have done previously
• Weekend tee slots will become over demanded - reducing fee paying vistors
• Weekend competitions will boom - reducing fee paying vistors

Thats not to say such a scheme couldn't exist. Someone pointed out de Vere's memebership of paying a fee and acquiring points. This is something which other clubs may find attractive, especially if they are linked to other course. For example the course in the my area are linked in the Durham/Tees Alliance (cant remember if its Durham or Tees).  These clubs could maybe join forces in a points scheme and have an individual chose a home course should they wish to maintain a handicap.

I can see the demand for wanting a weekend memebership, but for someone only wanting to play a weekend without paying full fees, you really have to be looking at the alternatives out there such as 2-fore-1, teetimes.co.uk or society games.

We all know deep down clubs both private or muni just wouldn't be able to run these. Even if someone plays 30 times a year (just over every other weekend once) at a club charging a modst £30 thats £900 - above average for a full membership, especially in the north east - why would a club throw in a reduced rate? 

Karl, which part do you not get. Golf fees are annual, that means that you pay a fee for the year to play golf whenever you wish, it is not the clubs fault that you are unable to play during the week.

Strange as it may seem to you, working Monday to Friday is common amongst those who play golf or they would not be able to afford this so called luxury.

You have proposed something that economically falls down, as has been explained to you by others. When will it sink in?

not sure if people are missing the point here but here goes

1,  why buy 7 day if you can only play 2

2, how many clubs have joined teetimes as they look to fill the course on weekends

3, people work monday to friday or even shits

4,  they may only play once over the weekend as family life means they can only do it and that day they do play they wil spend money over the bar

5 people dont have over £1000 to pay to join a club

the point is there is lots of people out there that play the game and clubs could look at getting then into the club, uou have to remember there is lots of clubs and not enough people to play on them

Karl - you have to be realistic. A weekend membership would be just too good for too many people, myself included (seen as the only time I can now play are alternate weekends). For it to be worth considering for a club I think they would likely have to charge 80%+ plus of the full 7 day membership. This is because weekend teetimes are a premium....especially at clubs that can offer year round golf....think Ramsdale, Oakmere, Collegepines etc for us mids/northies. These clubs charge up to twice the weekday rates and fill the courses (whilst likely reserving the early slots for members). I used to be a member at Gainsborough which was fantastic value at £600 a year for two courses. Only downside was the hour drive there and back.....if it was on my doorstep I'd still play £600 as like John says - I'd make the most of my limited "golf days", If it was 20 miles away......I'd probably be happy to pay £500 (80% weekend rate if it existed). Realistically the club would not be able to charge less as they will be out of pocket.

As Dave and Adrian have said, the way for us full time workies to play is on a points (or associate) scheme or via tee time deal sites (which if you look will see there is not the availability there was 6 months ago - golf is seemingly on the up again slightly). I tried Doncaster Town Moor for the last 12 months on an associate scheme for £100 + £12 per round, whilst good value, they only let us play saturdays, not sundays so going forward it will not work for me. If I can find something similar locally I will probably give it a go.

I am not sure that clubs wish to attract people who think like you, Karl. You are not a golfer, just one who likes to get out and hit a ball, with you dictating the terms.

Coming at this from a different angle, let's say clubs need £3million to stay in business. If their current income is £2.9mill and they've maximised their income through all other avenues, and they have vacancies. Why can't that club create a different type of weekend membership with a limit on how many they'd offer? The reality is some clubs are doing this now, AND some clubs have been doing this for donkey's years - once upon a time there were no 5 day members.

As to the original question of "why buy a 7 day membership when I only want a 2 day membership?" Because you have very little say in the matter. The clubs decide on membership catagories, not the individual. If a club doesn't need to fill vacancies they're not going to look beyond their current offerings, and why should they...

Going off at a bit of a tangent, most private members clubs are owned by all the members. They actually care about the type of club they joined - its a club not just the course. Do they want members who have little affiliation with the club and who just see it as somewhere to play their golf? Do I want a member who only wants to pay £300 and doesn't care about the club, or looking at the maths would I prefer to less than pay £1 per member to keep the club ethos intact?

john in what way am i not a golfer????????

i think that is out of order calling me that, you dont know me

i love the game i just think that clubs should look at the bigger picture and move forward with the times, and i have a young family which takes up my time, as people dont have the money to pay silly fees, as most clubs now dont charge joining fees

Karl, you are just being selfish in your attitude to this game, which you appear to know very little about. Seems you want everything for nothing, even using employers time to post on a forum.

Because I might kick a ball about does not make me a footballer.

The fees are not silly, especially where you live, try playing down here and you would find things a lot different. First of all you would not be able to pay a green fee at a private club as the rquirement needed to play would be a letter of introduction from your own club and I doubt you wpould wish to pay the very high green fees for the courses around my area.

Club golf is the only way to play this game.

I don't need to know you when you are making yourself look pretty silly with the arguments you have attempted to put forward.

john you have gone to over the top this is a forum were people put opions on here not to have a go at people not once have i said anything like that to you or anyone on here and if iit silly why do people talk about it plus i dont live near you so what happens near you may not be happening around the counrty

i will not go as low as you have

plus what i do at work has nothing to do with you

hi richard

the main local one to me is altrincham they charge i think £18 a round but weekends you ahve to play early as the slots get booked very early, as i have said at the moemnt i like to play at diffrent places and pay upto about £20 around with the option of using teetimes i can get better deals, the main reason i would join a club is somtimes i would play on my own which as anyone would say is not the best, so i could play with other people,

Karl, at £18 and if you do 30 rounds, i.e. less than 2/3's the weekends available, you're up to £540 per year.

Flixton GC are charging less than £700 per year, and you can pay monthly via fairway credit. About 10years ago they spent a fortune on drainage and have good greens and fairways - cracking set of guys too. That's full membership with all the benefits that brings, like access for a mid week round of the summer evenings and all comps.

Ashton-on-Mersey are priced pretty similarly but I always found that a bit like bomb alley in the middle with shouts of fore in all directions.

If you're interested about Flixton let me know and I can get you in there and mixing with loads of really good guys. They also do various playing packages which will get you in there playing Sunday afternoons, and in all honesty will save you money.

true richard but just an idea that some clubs may need to do and move forward wuth the times

Move forward with the times, easy off the tongue but what does it actually mean?

john maybe you should read all the posts again as

As the last few people have said & if you read makes really good sense. A private club will not offer a weekend membership at the amount you think is good value because they will realise that you will pretty quickly be playing for almost nothing if you play every other weekend.

Wake up & smell the roses!!

I don't think he is capable of waking up to the facts, John.

Karl, the cheapest membership you're going to get locally is £532 at Gatley golf club. That will get you Monday to Friday + Sunday. Like Flixton and Ashton-on-Mersey it's a 9 hole club.

You won't get better than that because the clubs don't need to change their offerings, i.e. they're not that desperate to balance their books by creating catagories like you suggest. If a club was short by 10 members that equates to £18 per member on their subs... the change you suggest just isn't going to happen because they'd need 35 members at weekend rates to achieve that. Members wouldn't sanction that at clubs that already see some full members missing out playing in the winter because of the lack of light.

You either bite the bullet and join a members club or accept you're stuck with Alty.

Clubs generating more money at weekends. If Im first off on sunday morning at 1st light on the 1st tee there are 17 holes not being used. Half the course not being touched for 2 hours. Why not sell portions of rounds at say £1 a hole. So this would generate an extra £17+£16+£15 etc etc £170 before the 1st tee goes out. Should be the same after the last tee goes out. Get my drift? So £340 extra per weekend. Could even get 2 groups on each tee to start and this would double income. This is only on a £20 green fee. On a £40 green fee a £2 a hole tarrif could be charged. I know some clubs have a tenth hole start also but not too many.

Whats your views.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Picking up on Dave's comment, perhaps Birmingham Munis have a good idea.  On any of their 7 courses you can play the back 9 without booking for the first hour of play for 60% of the 18 hole rate.  Everyone turns up, pays and joins the queue.  This maximises the course usage and is generally the haunt of newer golfers; it's actually where I learnt my golf. 

Perhaps this is something for private courses could consider to boost their weekend funds

I've just arrived on this thread and before I go and delete all the duplicate posts I will put in my two cents.

The week-end is competition days and most clubs have a full time sheet most week-ends. Ladies, Seniors and many other people play during the week.

How would most of you guys feel if you pay the £1000 pa fees and can't get a Time on a Saturday because of the guys paying £400 pa.

The great thing abot being a Full Member is when you find a couple of hours free. You can use the Club facilities (Practice Ground, Course or Putting Green) for no extra cost.

The main problem with Karls idea is what will happen the rest of the week. A Golf Club operates seven days a week so the week-end Membership would need to be 50% of Full Subs and no use of the facilities Monday to Friday.

TheLyth.

david it was an idea for clubs that dont have full memberships and need to get people into the club

Karl,

" it was an idea for clubs that dont have full memberships"

What do you mean by this? Are you talking about Clubs that don't offer Memberships? Or for clubs that  have room for more members?

If you go to most holiday resorts; like Bridlington or Scarborough for example; you will find week-end Memberships as a one off as well as a weekly Membership.

I can see the argument that if a Club offers a 'Five Day Membership' why not offer a 'Week-End membership' and the offer could be:- Full @ £1000pa, M-F@ £600pa and week-end @ £600pa. But! the daily Green-Fee will then be about £40 to play other days.

I think the biggest problem is to differentiate between a Club Membership and Green-Fees. Why want to be a Week-End Member and not play in Comps and if you then enter a Knock-Out and your opponent is a Five Day Member. Too many hurdles.

The only solution I can see would be for a Club to offer a Membership (like a Muni at £100-£200pa) and add the Green-Fees (like a Season Ticket) in parts like M-F, W/E, Summer and Winter. Almost just like most Muni's do now. I'll have to look at the financial side to this but I think more Clubs would be worse off.

TheLyth

Karl,

"................ and need to get people into the club"

The last place a Private Members Club would need to look at to increase member numbers would be over the week-end.

TheLyth

people have gone off the whole point i started to make if a club which may be private or even a muni that is short of members and need to get some money into club if a club is full then so be it, lots of golf courses to play and all trying to get members as i have said i can play most places at weekend no problem

Adele - Handicap 24

Well I am new to Golfshake and I have been reading this blog and just wanted to put my twopennyworth in. 

I used to be a 7 day member at a club which was 18 miles (36 miles round trip) from where I live because it was within my price range, however, as I am a woman who can only play at weekends, it was getting more and more difficult to get on the course over the weekend.  The men would play their medal and stapleford competitions over the weekends rather than through the week, therefore, meaning that I could not get a game of golf in over a weekend at a reasonable hour, ie. morning or early afternoon,

Also at muni courses, you wil find that most of the club competitions go out at the weekends and obviously societies.  I played on one which had a backlog on the 1st tee and one of the members suggested I tee of on the 10th (which I thought was a good idea), however, when I got to the 1st tee after 9 holes I had the manager run down to me to tell me that I had missed my tee off time on the 1st hole.  Ludicrous.  How on earth are you supposed to get a weekend game in with all this going on at clubs.  Those with 5 or 7 day memberships should play all their matches through Mon-Frid and leave the course available for those that can only play at the weekends, then I might be a bit more willing to pay the full 7 day memberships fee in order to get a decent game over the weekend.  Until that happens I will stick to my 9 hole membership that does not qualify me to having a club handicap and will work off my society handicap for which I run.  We have no problem booking courses at weekends and the clubs are usually very accommodating for us and try to bend over backwards in order that we have a good day out, where plenty of money is earned both in food and drink on these society days for the clubs we use.

Adele

P.S. I don't expect a response as I am female and considered much lower in the golfing circle than men.

love it now wait for john to have a go now lmao welcome to the site adele

P.S. I don't expect a response as I am female and considered much lower in the golfing circle than men.

Not at my club Adele and most certainly not by me. In fact I have just played with my friend and his wife today and she played exceptionally well, in fact much better than the pair of us.

What you have to remember is that there are golf clubs and there are real golf clubs and I play at a real golf club where the members are the most important. We do not encourage green fees as we have a good guest deal for our friends who are not members.

real golf clubs a golf clubs why is one diffrent to the other

I spent 12 years as Treasurer of my club and, as you can imagine, spent many hours investigating and debating the pros and cons of various membership options.  Our view was that 2 day memberships would be suicide and I can't imagine any other private members' club coming to a different decision to be honest.

If you don't get good value from your club membership or just can't afford membership pay and play is the only real option.

It does highlight a growing problem where people are looking at the cost of playing a round of golf rather than considering the cost of membership at private club and all the benefits that come with that.

The simple truth is that a golf courses and clubhouse are expensive to maintain and cheap membership just isn't viable.

Different clubs run their businesses as they see fit, and in many cases as decided by their own members via AGM's. Personally, I'd rather pay more to be able to guarantee my Saturdays and Sundays. Money decides access to golf. Harsh but true.

Karl, it is obvious by your posts that you would not understand the difference between a golf club and a real golf club. The difference is so great I doubt you would appreciate it.

Richard I think these 2 points are spot on and simplisticly sums up why you can't radicaly alter club membership to follow how gym/leisure membership works void of community/interaction.

people are looking at the cost of playing a round of golf rather than considering the cost of membership at private club and all the benefits that come with that

simple truth is that a golf courses and clubhouse are expensive to maintain

Change can be good and times change but for golf clubs to survive long term any changes need to be given careful consideration.   There are some great schemes out there for 'associate' and 'levy' membership which focuses on support of the club and generating revenue.

I just hope we don't end up in 5 years with golf courses closing and the land going over to property developers!

What has to be considered is that whilst many of the people that work and run golf courses do it because they love it, they also need to earn a living like the forum poster does from Mon-Fri. Why not go the whole hog and have a weekend only course for those that demand it. Mind you it might look a bit shabby if the grass was only cut 2 days in 7!! Then again, if you are only prepared to pay £300 you would get what you pay for.  If you don't want to pay the money, play somewhere else i.e.a  municipal.

Adele, you raise a very interesting point and something that's been touched on in the other equality posts here on Golfshake. 

In principle this could be against the Equality act but as mentioned elsewhere until someone challenges it and sets any form of precedent then no one actually knows whether that is lawful or not.

This post, mentioned above, only really touches on it and still doesn't give any full guidance in terms of ladies, course access and competitions:

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2011/11/michael-shaw-an-introduction-to-the-equality-act/

john that is just like to many snobs from golf clubs who dont like change

david it is more towards clubs that need people to play there as not all golf clubs have full members and need to get people on the course or they will die

Karl, you are beginning to irritate me, you obviously know nothing at all about golf and its traditions and fully expect everyone to jump with joy with your transformations of the game, as we know it.

It is a good thing you live where they are not interested in these traditions as if you lived down here you would never get a game, as we do not have any public courses for you to play your version of the game.

John, I had the pleasure of living in southwest Manchester for 12 years up until a few years ago. Traditions are very strong in the vast majority of clubs in that area. The sort thing Karl is hoping for in that area isn't going to happen any time soon.

john i am irritating you i am lost on how you think i know nothing about golf, or how do you know how i oplay the game, 

if you can let me know how i play the game (when you dont know what i do on a golf course)

plus it is only an idea that may help some clubs that are looking to get new members and not change they way cubs like you play at with golf snobs like you want change with the time, i can keep this going for years if you would like but the end of the day what i may say lots will not like some will but that is what forums are about and if you dont like it thats your choice

Adele,

How on earth are you supposed to get a weekend game in with all this going on at clubs.  Those with 5 or 7 day memberships should play all their matches through Mon-Frid and leave the course available for those that can only play at the weekends, then I might be a bit more willing to pay the full 7 day memberships fee in order to get a decent game over the weekend. 

Just because people are 5 or 7 day members doesn't mean they can play all of their golf in the week.

In your own words you say that 5 or 7 day members should play in the week but then you say that you would pay the full 7 day membership in order to get a decent game over the weekend?? You can't have your cake & eat it.

Followed this for the last couple of days with interest. (Including a post which you may have read) So for the main 2 contributors.....

Karl - As nice as your idea sounds for an individual customer, you must surely realise by now a weekend membership for most clubs wouldn't viable.  A lot of great points have been raised, unfortunately against what your campaigning for. That includes commercial/economical values for the club and also maintaining the good will of the full paying members. Surely you must realise this now.

John - It feels a shame to say this as you contribute well on many points and enjoyed debating things with you, but please please please stop putting yourself and your club above people as you have done Karl in this thread.  The key quote from tonight is 'There are clubs and proper clubs'  thats not on.  Fair enough if people and clubs enjoy the traditions of the game, but different people enjoy the game in different ways. It doesn't make a person anymore or any less an enthusiast of the game. 

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, its just how things look from the fence I'm sitting on.....

No idea whats happened to my font there.....

Dave, thanks for your input, but I will not retract my statement that there are golf clubs or those who call themselves golf clubs, when in actual fact they are just pay and play, and there are real golf clubs where the member is paramount, who pays his fees annually and expects the club to honour its committments in providing a course in a condition worth the annual fee and to refrain from going down the route of having societies and green fees, which interfere with the members.

Just because Karl is able to pay green fees at many clubs in his area does not mean that this occurs down in this part of the country.

As soon as a club decides that it needs green fees to survive it has lost me as a member.

There are two major types of Golf Club out there.

1. A well established (proper?) Club that is run for its members and these are generally on a sound financial footing.

2. A new commercial venture where money has been borrowed to build it and a set amount of income is needed each week/month/quarter in order for it to survive.

TheLyth

Thanks, Lyth, I knew you would be along and put my thoughts into a more understanding format.

dave thank you for your points some points may be right some may be wrong but the end of the day no matter what sport you play people will be stuck in one way or ther other,  

john  there is a club near me that charges close to £1000 a year and they let other people play and societs play as most clubs do around the counrty,

on that note i think it would be an idea to end this now before someone says somthing which would not be nice, 

Karl,

There is a Club near me that back in the 70/80's didn't have a yearly fee. Some years you paid nothing, but others £000's. A very elite Club, yet its members were the friendliest that I have ever come across.. The Membership List had Sirs, Majors, Right Honourables and at least two High Court Judges on it.

Do you think that they would allow Jeans and collarless shirts on the course? No

Yet a mile up the road there is another course that allows any clothing on its course. You just pick the course that suits you.

BTW, I have hit golf shots off Wembley turf. How? I may tell later.

TheLyth

Reminds me of when I was a member at Frinton-on-Sea golf club, Lyth. The club wreaked of old money and everyone was charming and a delight to both talk to and play with. A lovely links to boot.

Karl,

I was an artisan member at this club in 1964 and paid the princely sum of £2 per year to play there.

This link will show you what you have to conform to and what you would have to pay to play there now.

http://www.stgeorgeshillgolfclub.co.uk/en/visitors_green_fees

You will find that the fees are priced as a deterrent.

Looks a smashing set up John - as you say a "proper" golf club.

john how thngs are done in the past so be it but the end of the day this was started for clubs that need people to play not clubs that like to stay in the old ways of golf and dont want to change can stay that way, so the point was a again which you have some what gone off the line is people that can only play weekends if clubs need people to play even if its a new club or an old club it is an idea that they can use and if you dont like it well so be it but the end of the day money makes clubs keep going and if they dont get money they will close members that cant see thet are blind because money makes the work go around not love for a club

James, indeed it is and I count myself fortunate to have been able to play there, it is far  better than Wentworth, indeed there are probably twenty nearby courses that are just as comparable, all proper clubs.

In fact Swinley Forest was only playable in a match or as a guest of a member. Queenwood, one won't even get past the gates.

I am not saying that you cannot pay a green fee at any of them but there is a procedure that usually entails a letter to the Secretary in the first instance. I have done this on a few occasions to get to play at Camberley Heath Golf club, another delightful place to play.

In sixties I would often park my artic in the car park at West Hill Golf club change after a shower into golf gear and have a game. Members were delightful and welcoming, as was the female secxretary. I notice on passing that club now that there are very large gates with a code system attached. Also the fees would now be well out of what I am prepared to pay for a game.

The BEST idea I've seem recently is from Deanwood Park in Berkshire http://www.deanwoodpark.co.uk/main.asp?pid=79&child=57,73,84,56,&parent=0&lang= They charge members of their "Nomadic Golfer" scheme LESS THAN £50 per year to keep a congu handicap. If you want to you can play in their comps, on pay and play rates - but the BIG IDEA is that you keep your congu handicap active by playing in official Open comps (see Golfempire.co.uk).

I was recently speaking to our manager and we were talking about something along similar lines to your first post.

Lets say that a golf club charges £1,000 per year for a seven day membership.  This golf club has 1,000 seven day members.

The club then introduces a weekend membership rate.  Now, seeing as the weekends are busy they decide to charge a premium rate.  So they decide to charge £500 for a weekend membership.

Of the 1,000 seven day members 900 of them change to the weekend membership as they can never play midweek due to work.

Without doing any maths you can see how much money the club are going to lose if they  introduce a weekend membership.

It was also mentioned whilst I was with the club manager about having more midweek competitions.  He wasn't for this as he was worried that too many seven day members would change to a five day membership!  Again, the club would lose money.

Many moons ago I was playing at Thorne GC.  You paid £30 to join, went to see the committee and once accepted you could play in their competitions.  You had to pay green fees every time you played, but at least you got a proper handicap and a chance to win a club competition.  It was ideal for me at that time in my life.  Just started golf and didn't want to pay out money on a membership just in case I didn't enjoy it!

I could see one of the new golf clubs starting up a weekend membership scheme, but this would be just to get some money in at the start of their business.

But for the established golf club I cannot see them offering a weekend membership.

At my golf club we have two courses, one is a pay and play, the other is a member's only course.  Although for the right price you can play the member's course.

They did mention the fact that they were thinking about having a membership for the pay and play course.  If people who joined this wanted to play the member's course they would pay a reduced green fee. 

The golf club dropped this idea as they worked out how many members they had who would leave the main course and join the pay and play course, again money decided what they would offer.

Russ

My wife is a member of a local course and we pay a yearly 7 day membership. We have a couple of times thought about cancelling and just paying and playing, but when you do the calculations, she only has to play 34 times to get her moneys worth. With long evenings through the summer, she can play in the evening, yes some times only 14 holes, but does not cost any more to do so.
Yes, weekend mebership might suit some people and yes you would get a good up take, but I think, with other options to people, like playing in societies, it will take sometime for it to happen.
It will be down to how greedy the owners of these courses are and if they are after a quick return.

well i know this had people going for a few weeks but having read my local golf newspaper i have noticed that lots of clubs are offer deals to get people in so maybe i was right and to keep going and get the younger people in (people uder 60) they are doing it

Just read this whole blog and it is a great debate.

Up here in Leeds we seem to have a huge variety of clubs that come in all sorts of flavours but the one thing that I am not aware of happening at all EVER is any of them struggling to fill weekend teetimes. So I can't really understand why any of the courses/clubs would offer a weekendend only membership as it is the one time period which is already busy.

At my club we only have 1 type of membership. When we went through equality there was a discussion about offering a 5 day membership (the ladies were facing a huge hike in fees as a result of equality) but in the end it wasn't financially viable as it would have to be offered to the men too and they felt too many would switch and the club would suffer from reduced income.

I am very new to golf but I can already see there is a BIG difference between the game of golf and being a member of a golf club. Before being a member I would never have appreciated all the extras that your get (that I now take for granted). It is hard to describe and even if you write it out it doesn't do justice to reality. From having a locker, space in the bag store, being looked after by the Pro, practice facilities, comps organised throughout the year, the camaraderie in the clubhouse, the value for money bar/restaurant and even the ambience is all part of the package.

Since I got too old for my main sport (hockey) I have tried lots of different ways of staying fit and active but have never lasted with anything. Joining a gym ended up being a waste of money as even with all the facilties there I didn't stick with it. 

Joining the golf club is the best thing I ever did. Even with a joining fee of twice the yearly subs and the subs being over £1Kpa I consider it value for money. 

I play 2-3 evenings a week (I can get 18 holes in after work in the summer). I practice 2-3 hours on Saturday and play in competitions on Sunday. My husband is captain of the scratch team so I am caddying for him at least once a week (I get free dinner when I caddy http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor362/plugins/smiley/images/regular_smile.gif" title="smiley" width="20" />). The best thing is I can go there whenever I have some free time. I have to work Mon-Fri but I can be flexible and the club is only 5 mins drive from me. If the sun is shining and I want to leave an hour early, or I want to hit a few balls at lunchtime or before work then I can. 

I absolutely love it. We had to go through rigorous proceedures to be accepted into the club, which at the time I resented. But now as a member for 2 years I understand it. They are looking for like minded people as well as keen golfers. They are looking for people who want to be a part of the club and help keep it great - it isn't just about playing golf. Because they have those proceedures it makes the club such a wonderful escape from the humdrum of everyday life - no idea why they let me in!