Chances of 28,28,25 and 25 Handicapers going 3 under?

I played in a texas scramble at my club in a charity event at the weekend, the second place team which consisted of the above handicaps came in 3 under par!!

Now we had a great round (7 under) our handicaps 6,9,12 and 18.

Am i being bitter or does anyone else think that these guys could not possbly hit a score like this even in texas scramble format?

Or to look at it another way, with an average handicap of about 26 they shot 29 under their handicap!!

Does everyone else get frustrated with these kind of scores in competitions?

Cheers Angry Chris

I don't mind if they've played every week and thus their handicaps are a true reflection of their ability. Every dog has their day and just occasionally when they're playing together.

if only Brian ....

if they've played every week and thus their handicaps are a true reflection of their ability

I played in a Texas Scramble the other week, handicap for the team, 10-13-16-28, we hit 8 birdies, playing of 1/5 gave us 21.4 under par, only enough to finsh second. The winning team had a combined handicap of 90, 18 shots leaving them after the round on -24

Even high handicappers hit the ball well enough now and again, so when there are four balls to choose from then I would imagine at least one would be in the fairway each time, 70% of GUR and just maybe the putting that kept the score down.

If I'm reading your post correctly, you were 4 shots better than the team who were second. And you are questioning their handicaps!

I think like Robert says 'even high handicappers can hit a good shot'  so when you have 4 balls you are just relying on each player having 4-5 good holes each.

I've just had a look at the results from the Golfshake Open and the top 4 players had a gross 67 off handicaps of 18,11,5,13 which would have been 53 points!

and the first group out, although was only 3 players, had handicaps of 5,13,11 and shot a gross 69 (2 under) which stableford points of 46

No - not unlikely. It is quite common for Texas Scrambles with 10% of combined handicaps to produce sub-60 scores on par 72 courses.  Your single figure handicappers played well on the day but if a high handicapper plays well, he is likely to be playing more shots better in relation to handicap than the single figure guys. It's a fact of life that a high handicapper is much more likely to play 5 shots better than handicap than a Cat3 golfer and even more so for a single figure player.

Chris, I didn't read it as you're a miserable barsteward. It is frustrating when you know your team is made up of better players but that's what the h'cap system is all about. I used to get really cheesed off with the feeling I just couldn't compete in some events. Then one day I posted an unbelieveable 46pts in horrendously windy, rainy, conditions playing off 4. Does that make me a bandit?

I now just accept that exceptional scores happen and I will have another day out like that one day.

Colin,

Just had a quick look on Master Scorecard and even on 1/10 hcp our team score would have still only managed 2nd. One team went round -11 gross, but due to having 3 single figuere (4, 7 and 8)handicappers in the quartet they only had 9.4 shots.

Chris, I wasn't calling you miserable either.

my fourball had a combined hc of 67  and we finished -8 gross,

1/5 = 13.4+8 = 21.4under

1/10= 6.7+8 = 14,7under

winners had a combined hc of 90,

1/5 = 18+6 = 24under

1/10= 9+6 =15

although had 1/10 been used, we would have been down to third

one group shot  -11 and would have recieved 4.7 giving them the win on 15.7 under

due to this result I picked up my first brown envelope with the tidy sum of £6 in..lol

I guess it's a start

I don't feel that their score of three under should be queried. As you are well aware from reading these forums the majority of 28 handicappers hit the ball 300 yards and having four attempts at every shot, then anything is possible.

Don't forget the four attempts for each putt on the greens and you will realise that their score was not out of the way at all.

When we play a texas scramble at our club the winning team are normally around the 58 - 59 mark.

Having four high handicap players going under par wouldn't bother me that much.

Russ

In 4 ball scramble's i've played the group that is going to win is usually going to need finish in the late 50's nett, off 10% combined the winning group in this case finished on about 61 nett, doesn't seem too outrageous to me

Next time you play a round on your own Chris, give yourself 4 chances on every shot. You should go round under par. Thats the way it is. All it takes is for one of the four 25+ handicappers to hit the green in regulation, they've then got 4 chances at the putt, reading the line every time. Texas scramble is all about birdies, not pars. They should have played off 10.6, so 3 under gross isn't great. Just a quick link to our last 4 man scramble results:

http://www.masterscoreboard.co.uk/results/CompetitionTeamResult.php?&CWID=2129&Competition=409

I played in a 2 man scramble with my 12 year old son as my partner who plays off 23. Coming down the 17th we were even par, we ended up 2 over gross and came 5th so good scores are achievable with just 2 players.

Colin i realise that 3 under gross seems a long way offf for an individual playing off 26 but that's why it's usually 10% handicap allowance for 4 balls and even then the winner is usually, as stated previously, well under that. Really, i don't think you can infer any banditry to this result.

Chris

We play quite a few Texas Scrambles at our club over the winter months but have very specific rules about teams and handicaps. 

First off, the teams are always done by draw and are normally made up of 1 player under 10 handicap, 2 players in the range 10 - 18 and 1 player up to 28.  This evens out the teams nicely.

To prevent one dominant player taking over we specifiy that you have to use each persons drive at least 3 times and also each player's tee shot on one of the par 3 holes has to count.  The player whose ball is selected can't then play the next shot so apart from the tee shot you only ever have three people playing.

It makes it quite tactical deciding when to use the higher handicap golfer's drive (unless they hit it 300 yards ?!?!?!) and it can get edgy towards the end when 1 or 2 players still need to get a drive in with only 2 or 3 holes to go!.

Handicaps are worked out as 1/8 of the combined total.

I have to say this system works quite well.

I'm surprised at John's comment about a 26 handicapper being able to hit a ball 300 yards? i for one have never met one who can! and if they could can they do it every time maybe one in 18?

A tongue in cheek comment, Chris, which you did not pick up on because you have not been on this forum very long. Exaggeration in claimed distances is very common on this site.

"As you are well aware from reading these forums the majority of 28 handicappers hit the ball 300 yards "

Not Johns opinion guys it's what many high Hcp'rs have claimed on here over the years,he was joking.

I,d be miffed and i'm sceptical of the score given the hcp's ,but nothing suprises me these days!http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/whatchutalkingabout_smile.gif" title="indecision" width="20" />

When ever i've played in club orgainised scrambles it's usually the cat 1's that  dominate.

cp's When evereWwwwcvvwevv

Edit: didn't realise you'd posted JP

Chris and Colin seem to have ended up as a besieged minority obsessed with the average handicap. The average handicap of the 4-man team is pretty irrelevant as they are not playing as individuals. A 28-handicapper is going to play lots of bad shots but as long as one of the group can make a good shot out of the 4 made, then there is a chance of a good score. Many of the other posts show that sub-60 rounds with 10% of combined handicaps are pretty much expected and if a team of high handicappers can manage it, good luck to them.

for this format the handicap that the group has is 10.6

they shot 3 under gross

therefore 13.6 better than handicap on the day

29 better is a nonsense

if a group of cat 1 of handicap basically 1 for these purposes shot 13 better then they are also nett 59

Seen it before, will see it again.

Colin

Chris confirmed in one of his posts that the score was 3 under gross. Assuming a par of 72, this would be a gross 69. The normal 4-man team handicap is 10% of the combined which, in this case, is 10.6. Their nett score is then 58.4 and that is pretty much in line with other winning scores mentioned in posts on this subject.

I have checked historical Scramble results at our place and a nett 58.4 would not have been out of place. We have had winning scores better than 58.4 and all players had genuine current handicaps and one of the teams had lower handicaps than Chris's team.

"Then one day I posted an unbelieveable 46pts in horrendously windy, rainy, conditions playing off 4. Does that make me a bandit?"

YES IT DOES http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/shades_smile.gif" title="cool" />

2 things

Should all entries of a Texas scramble not be spread out so all the low handicaps are apart as are the high handicappers as good as is practicable.

In texas scramble, can the rest of your team look down the line when you are putting to get a read. This is not allowed in singles. Or is it a total golfing no no.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

It is usual for the groups to be selected with a mix of handicaps.

Any amount of checking line of putts is allowed I think, as it's your putt as well. The R&A of course don't recognise texas scramble so a club or society can make up rules at will!

If you are getting upset about a score in texas scramble then maybe its time to have a few weeks off! Surely its just for fun. 

1/6 or 1/5 with a mandatory 5 tee shots each.

You won't keep them happy. If a 3-man team wins, the 4-man teams will say unfair handicap allowance. If they don't, the 3-man team will say unfair as they only get 3 goes at putts.

We had the '1 group of 3' dilemma for an informal comp a few weeks ago.

We played 1,2,3 Stableford format (1st hole 1 shot to count, 2nd 2 and 3rd 3 etc etc). Our group of 4 were on fire and we got a massive 94 points and were very happy with that playing off 3/4 handicaps. Especially as we had 3 higher handicaps which means we lose a lot of shots.

Couldn't believe it when we didn't win! The group of 3 (off full handicaps) got 96 points!  Still - to win they all had to play very well on the 3 shot holes so fair play to them. I'm not bitter - I got my cadbury's creme egg consolation prize!

David, I posted this when the original thread was started -

We play quite a few Texas Scrambles at our club over the winter months but have very specific rules about teams and handicaps. 

First off, the teams are always done by draw and are normally made up of 1 player under 10 handicap, 2 players in the range 10 - 18 and 1 player up to 28.  This evens out the teams nicely.

To prevent one dominant player taking over we specifiy that you have to use each persons drive at least 3 times and also each player's tee shot on one of the par 3 holes has to count.  The player whose ball is selected can't then play the next shot so apart from the tee shot you only ever have three people playing.

It makes it quite tactical deciding when to use the higher handicap golfer's drive (unless they hit it 300 yards ?!?!?!) and it can get edgy towards the end when 1 or 2 players still need to get a drive in with only 2 or 3 holes to go!.

Handicaps are worked out as 1/8 of the combined total.

For three man teams, the handicap allowance is reduced to 1/6.  However, all three can play each shot (the same as a four man team after the tee shot).  It seems to work pretty well judging by the results over the years. Occassionally, a three man team might win but not too often.

Richard