Yet another rules question
In my local pub golf society event at the weekend we came across a situation that no one had encountered before. We were playing stableford off 3/4 handicaps. One guy was having an absolute shocker of a round but still continued to try his best nevertheless. We came to the 16th, a par 4, index 4 and he managed to hit the green in 2, something he hadn't done all day. Birdie putt!!!!! He asked for the flag to be tended as he was still quite a way to the hole and stroked a beautiful putt bang on line. The player who was tending the pin tried to take the flag out as the ball was half way across the green but it wouldn't move. Wedged in solid it was. Anyway this guy's putt continues on it's way, hits the pin and drops in the hole. My question as you may have guessed is does the player receive the penalty or the guy who was tending the pin and if so what is the penalty? It didn't matter to the outcome of the day as neither were anywhere near the prizes just like me.
Reply : Mon 12th Sep 2011 21:41
Decision 17-3/2: 2-stroke penalty to the putter, none for the flag attendant.
Reply : Mon 12th Sep 2011 21:42
One shot penalty to the player playing the shot I'm afraid Chris for hitting the pin. It's always the responsibility of the player taking shot, like if you hit another player's ball on the green when putting. It's up to you to ask them to mark their ball and there's no penalty to them if you hit their ball.
Anyone tending the flag should always make sure the flag is loose before the pott is taken
Reply : Mon 12th Sep 2011 21:56
Cheers guys. One to remember for the future.
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 09:32
Chris, I take it you didnt mean that the flag was stuck in the hole and you couldn't remove it at all.
If that was the case then I'd wonder about the penalty!
But if the flag could be removed and it was purely the fault of the person tending the flag then that's tough luck.
When I tend the flag I always remove if from the hole and place the base of the flag in front of the hole th e flag sits in, slightly tilting the flag back, but not touching the edge of hole.
This way the situation you describe couldn't happen.
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 13:11
I know rules are rules but would you apply this in this situation? It's pretty pedantic and makes us golfers look like boring old farts to the non golfing community. Much the same as the rule if you hit someones bag, what bollocks...are you going to do it on purpose?
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 13:22
I know what you mean Pat, it does seem a bit harsh. Following on from that question I'd like to know what the case is if, as happened to me in a game a few winters ago, the flag is actually frozen into the cup? I was putting from a long way out and my partner got to the flag and gave it a tug as the ball was on it's way and it wouldn't shift. Unfortunately his second heave actually took the complete cup out of the green, clean as a whistle, and my ball rattled the steel liner as it was now about 6 inches out of the ground....
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 13:23
And nobody hits it out of bounds or into a lake on purpose but you still have to take the penalty for it.
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 17:23
Wouldn't it be nice if we were all allowed to ignore a rule we didn't like - say three times in every round.
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 17:25
Still a 2-stroke penalty if it was stuck in the hole. The only get-out for the putter was if the flag attendant deliberately failed to remove it - then the attendant is penalised.
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 17:26
Penalty only applies if it's your bag or your partner's in a pairs.
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 21:18
If you hit an opponents bag you have the choice to play your next shot as it lies or replay it with no penalty. If you hit your own or your partner's bag then it is a one stroke penalty
I do agree that in a social game between friends, if the 'mishap' occurred as in Chris' case about which the thread was started I would not penalise the player
Reply : Tue 13th Sep 2011 22:38
Russ, yes it was genuinely stuck. One of those hexagonal ended flagsticks that sits in a hexagonal hole in the cup. Must have been a bit worn as it was twisted so the points where on the flat faces if you know what I mean. I do as you do and remove it first and sit it back in the cup on an angle.
Chris, no penalty was imposed as we all agreed it was a pure accident and it was only a friendly pub society do anyway. I do wonder if the same would have happened in the monthly medal with the absolute sticklers for the rule book though.
Reply : Wed 14th Sep 2011 09:21
OK going back to what happened to Tim: what would happen if the frozen flagstick tothe cup was pulled out but not fully and the ball hit the cup. Get flicking through those pages.
Reply : Wed 14th Sep 2011 15:04
Outside Agency - if moving, stroke cancelled, replaced; if not moving, play as it lies.
Reply : Sun 18th Sep 2011 12:08
The R&A have their own rules app for the Ipod, who'd have thought it!