Possibly should have PM'd Darren with this one but thought I'd do a general enquiry to see if I can climb up the leaderboard!
Played at a course at the weekend and put my score in as usual, although had to create a new card for the yardage we played off. The yellow tees defaulted (I assume) to an SSS of 67 for the par 71, which seemed a bit low to me. Off the white tees the course was a par 70, despite being about the same length and according to the EGU website has an SSS of 69.
My question is how is the SSS set, by who and could they be different for the two different tees?
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 12:03
I'd appreciated that that's what it was, but who sets it? One of the courses around here is big and challenging but I can't find any info on SSS's at all, is this because it's a pay and play but not a club?
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 12:29
Silly old fool
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 13:18
David, To answer your question, the SSS is based solely on the length of the course.
The CSS introduced in 1988 was to take into consideration the affects of weather and condition of the course.
My own personal view is that SSS should be scrapped. The Pros play to par so why cannot we.
Last edit : Mon 25th Jun 2007 13:19
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 14:49
For anyone interested further informaion here from CONGU on SSS
and here for CSS
I think it's time now that SSS and handicapping etc was looked at here in the UK, similar to Europe a few years back. Maybe the US have it right with course rating and slope and their handicap system in use what is averaged out rather than our round by round system. Round by round is great when your handicap goes down but the max 0.1 adjustment up seems restrictive.
Last edit : Mon 25th Jun 2007 15:00
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 14:58
Tim, just to pick up on your original point which may have got lost within this post.
'The yellow tees defaulted (I assume) to an SSS of 67 for the par 71, which seemed a bit low to me.'
Unless you set the SSS when you create the scorecard the system will create a default SSS. The information below is the figures that are used in calculating the default SSS on the site is none is given, this is from data a few years back when the basis of the SSS was on yardage bearing in mind the adjustments as per the CONGU ruling. Most scorecards will include SSS and par.
Hope this helps, and let me know if you need me to change the SSS.
If the yardage is greater than the first figure then the second firgure is the default SSS
yardage greater than equals SSS
> 7281 = 75
> 7061 = 74
> 6841 = 73
> 6621 = 72
> 6401 = 71
> 6181 = 70
> 5961 = 69
> 5741 = 68
> 5521 = 67
> 5301 = 66
> 5081 = 65
> 4861 = 64
> 4641 = 63
> 4421 = 62
> 4201 = 61
> 3981 = 60
Last edit : Mon 25th Jun 2007 15:56
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 14:58
I am right I'm afraid David, no matter what you say. SSS is on the total length of the course, or was when it was first introduced. Of course since then there might have been added parameters for this, but it still does not take away the fact that it is a ridiculous system and should be discarded.
My last club in London was Wimbledon Common with five par 3's of 250 yards, all very narrow and tree lined.
Because only one par five, the overall length would appear short but with the SSS always three below the par it made the course very difficult and I would love to see the Pro who would go round there in 65, just to retain his scratch handicap. It just would not happen.
It was because of this anomaly that the CSS was introduced so that the scratch and lower handicappers were not discriminated against with a system that only helped the higher handicap players.
Last edit : Mon 25th Jun 2007 15:08
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 15:46
So Darren, does that mean that Breedon Priory yellow (5587yds) should be 69 instead of 67? The EGU site has the whites at 68.
Morley Hayes yellow at 6482 should be 72?
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 15:54
The yardages I've uploaded are just default values should SSS's not be known.
I may be wrong so forgive me just in case, but a few years ago these were the starting points for calculating the courses SSS. So yardage was used to get the initial SSS as per my list and then other factors were taken into consideration to get the final SSS as per the CONGU site based on trees, bunkers, green size, width of fairways, rough etc
As mentioned previously all courses should identify the SSS per tee for their course on the scorecard, this should be what people input into the system on the site. If for some reason the SSS is not known/on the card then the site will automatically set the SSS at the default value as per my list. So in this scenario BP would be 67 and MH 71 (I've updated the list to show the correct mathematical notation)
Does this make sense ? fundamentally without the SSS the handicap could not be calculated hence the reason to set default values when no SSS is added to the scorecard on the site.
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 20:01
Chris, the last paragraph is Myth 7 on the CONGU FAQ, detailed article if anyone is interested. Would make it easier to scrap 3/4's
Reply : Mon 25th Jun 2007 20:05
In a nutshell, Chris, it is ridiculous, as you say. Par is Par. My experience tells me that the long courses usually have all their length in four par fives, which IMO are the easist pars to make.
I know and have played many courses at around 6000 yds with a stupid SSS of 66/67 and they are harder than the so called longer ones, with a few exceptions of course, but then they are on the professional rota.
Take Wentworth as an example, the East course is much more difficult than the West as likewise the new course at Sunningdale is far harder than the Old course.
Reply : Tue 26th Jun 2007 07:34
Dave, Whats happened to your handicap? you been playing to may long courses.
Reply : Tue 26th Jun 2007 18:13
mines crawling back up again.
Reply : Tue 26th Jun 2007 20:02
Yes. The SSS means your club is too tough for you, hence the raise in your handicap.
I bet it's been a while since you've had anything raise that fast eh Dave?
Reply : Tue 26th Jun 2007 20:18
Are things going badly me old mucker?
Reply : Tue 26th Jun 2007 20:33
I think you have a great swing.
Reply : Tue 26th Jun 2007 21:08
How about just sticking with a nice apr 3 course. Do somthing different, tomake the game fun.