More Rules Changes

Webb Simpson lost at the Zurich Classic due to the wind moving his ball as he lined up his putt. he subsequently was in a play-off with Bubba Watson, which he lost. Now, the USGA, are seriously considering changing the rule....this after they have already changed a rule which involved Padraig Harrington being disqualified after a TV viewer phoned in. Are these rule changes good? Should the game not be kept as pure as possible as it was initially intended to 300 years ago?

As fsr as I am aware, they are only looking at changing the rule to state that if it is "known, or virtually certain" that the player did not move the ball, then no penalty will be given.  So, if the wind moves the ball (as is the case with Webb), the penalty does no apply.

I think it is a good thing that these rules changes are happening, and in some ways, bringing it more up-to-date.  There are still rules out there that need updating/removing as well, but little bits at a time!

There is a big difference between 'a player causing the ball to move' and 'a ball moving'.

The Rule change after Harringtons mishap is concerned with a breach that comes to light after a Card is 'posted'

TheLyth.

It shouldn't matter where the information comes from, it is a simple case of Yes or No. The Public don't panalise the Player, they just make the Officials aware of a situation and they then act accordingly.

TheLyth

In that situation there is no 'proof' either way so an Equity Ruling is needed.

Imagine attending a prize giving and getting a look at the winning card and you notice the winner is down for a 3 on the 15th and you saw them take 3 shots on that hole and there is no way they could have made a 3. Would you just leave it, or question how they made the 3?

TheLyth

this taken from PGA tour website

 Webb Simpson called it a "bad rule." He was penalized a stroke because the ball moved as he was addressing it on the green, costing him one stroke and perhaps his first PGA TOUR victory.

The U.S. Golf Association appears to agree. Vice President Thomas O'Toole said Monday there will be talks to modify the rule, with any change taking place at the start of 2012.

"If some other agency -- wind or gravity -- is known to cause that ball to move, no penalty would be applied," O'Toole said at the U.S. Open media day at Congressional Country Club.

Simpson, leading by one shot, was less than a foot from the cup at the 15th hole on Sunday at the Zurich Classic of New Orleans when the ball moved. Simpson said it was probably caused by wind, combined with relatively dry and hard greens.

Regardless, the rule as currently written offers no leeway, and the one-stroke penalty proved vital when he finished tied with Bubba Watson after 72 holes. Watson then won in a playoff.

"I better limit my comments on that rule, because I think it's such a bad rule," Simpson said Sunday. "When the wind or other natural things affect the golf ball, the player shouldn't be penalized."

O'Toole said he hasn't seen a replay of Simpson's penalty. He said the possible change has been under consideration with the Royal & Ancient for at least seven years.

"This is not a reaction to something that happened yesterday," O'Toole said.

The potential change will now be discussed in earnest over the next several months with the R&A. O'Toole sounded confident it would pass, but he stressed that "it's not a done deal."

O'Toole said the change -- much like the one regarding scorecards announced at this year's Masters -- is in part a result of the impeccable quality of video that is available. Television viewers can now see every little movement of the ball.

"We have to react to this," O'Toole said. "I think this is a better place to be than penalizing players unfairly."

O'Toole said the change would modify Rule 18-2b and would declare that "if it was known or virtually certain that the player did not cause that ball to move, then the (penalty) does not apply."

"Now we've got some latitude," O'Toole said. "Deeming the player to cause it to move applies in 90 percent of the situations, but it doesn't apply sometimes. And, in that case, the exception applies and no penalty." 

At the moment, once you have addressed the ball, its down to you.

You could be in the middle of a fairway, address the ball, and the wind gets up so you walk away to begin your set-up routine again. While you are stood with your Caddie 30ft from the ball, it moves. You have incurred a penalty. How unfair is that?

On the green you can 'Mark' your ball to escape from Rule 18-2b, but not anywhere else.

TheLyth

I for one am delighted that the USGA are thinking of changing the rule where a ball moves on the green by the wind, i think its a disgrace that a player has lost the chance of winning his first title for no fault of his own. I happened to play a links course last Saturday, which happened to be the windiest day of the year, we had 30mph winds and as it was a links it felt a lot windier than that. I actually enjoyed it especially the par 3s where you had to aim 30 yards left or right of the green and use a 6 iron where normally you would use an 8, but on 90% of the greens the ball was oscillating and on some greens it actually moved 1 or 2 cm, now we were just playing for fun so it didn't matter, but if it were in a competition it would be a nightmare as you would be afraid to ground your club, and hovering the putter head off the ground just behind the ball is a hard thing to do when there are 30mph winds gusting, it takes an effort just to keep your putting stroke straight .                     
                    
          

Webb Simpson called the penalty himself, otherwise no one would have taken that he had actually 'addressed' the ball. He didn't take a recognised 'stance'.

The problem is that if he had not put the putter on the ground behind the ball, but say 2ft beyond the ball, many people would have said he 'grounded' his club. Then some would have phoned in, and all sorts of issues risen.

TheLyth

There are plenty of rules in golf that need changing.

I saw the US PGA event and the incident mentioned.

He did call the penalty himself.

I cannot understand why you can address the ball, but not put you putter on the ground and it's not a penalty.  But if you address the ball and touch the ground it is a penalty.

In this case it is obviously the wind that has moved the ball so no penalty should be incurred.

Russ

This also throws up another interesting question. Should or could have Bubba Watson allowed Webb to win the play off and thus win the competition as he would have and deserved to had not his ball moved through no fault of his own. I guess there is too much money involved for sportsmanship like this to be contemplated. I would not want to win like this. Anyone agree / disagree

regards,

Michael.

D H

To "Mark" the ball on the green will be taken by most people here to mean 'lifting' too. Take it in the context of the whole comment here and it does.

Also which side do you take on "grounding"? Are a 'place club on ground anywhere' or 'place club behind ball to make a stroke'?

TheLyth

Cannot see the point in marking if one does not lift the ball.