Greensomes Rules - both balls lost or OOB off tee

Playing Greensomes at the weekend and one pair from the group in front came back to the tee to play a second pair of shots due to not being able to find either of their balls.

First off I recognise there are no "official" rules for Greensomes, the only reference I can find is on a recommendation for handicaps to be 60% Low handicapper + 40% High Handicapper, though we have played 3/8ths combined at the club.

Now before starting our clubs Greensomes Winter knock out last year (which we won http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/wink_smile.gif" title="wink" width="20" /> ) I did some research on the rules and I am sure I read somewhere (can't find the reference now though) that if you both go OOB or Lost Ball then you select one golfer to play second tee shot and then alternate from there (OOB again and other play plays 5 from tee). Yet I spoke to one of the committee members who felt 2 tee shots replayed and then select the best was ok. I guess as this event was strokelplay it has more impact than matchplay where you would maybe conceed the hole if 5 off the tee.

So if you imagine that in front of this tee is a small pond, if both players had topped their ball into the pond would they also get to play 2 shots again from the tee? if they chose to drop (unlikely for a 10-20 yard gain) could they only drop 1?

In my mind the single second tee shot is right.

What is anyone elses experience or understanding of the "rules" in this situation.

We are about to start the Winter Greensomes again as entry closed yesterday and it would be good to have advice provided ot the entrants as it is not that an unlikely event (I have seen all 4 drives from a 4 ball go OOB on this hole either left or right, yes I was one of them!)

Graham,

I think you have unearthed a problem for your Committee here. I would say that the 'Team' hit two Tee-shots and need to choose one to carry on playing with, where ever that is. Two balls OoB's here so ONE needs to be chosen to carry on with. But, what about a Provisional Ball? I will consult some experts and post here later.

TheLyth

Well, the experts have spoken.

The Committee should produce a CoC (Conditions of Competition) and include in it how a Team should proceed in this matter as no Rules of Golf cover it. Specially for the playing of Provisional Balls and what to do if it is a Mixed Greensome.

Here is a little help:-

Players A & B are a Team. The fact that either could be a Lady doesn't matter because they will play from there own Tee.

If both players either lose their balls or hit them OoB's they choose who will play their THIRD stroke from the Tee, but it becomes difficult if the 1st Tee-shots may be Lost or OoB's and Provisionals come into the equasion.

On a hole where both players hit tee-shots that may be lost or OoB's. A CoC can state that both players may hit Provisional Balls for each other, A hitting a PB for B's ball and visa versa or that only ONE PB can be hit. The CoC could also state that Provisionals may not be hit at all. 

I favour both players being allowed to hit Provisionals (as above) as it then covers most outcomes without holding up play. The only argument against this is that a Team gets to choose a ball Twice on a hole and may get an advantage, so maybe adding to a CoC that a Team nominates one ball in this situation for when both originals are lost or OoB's.

TheLyth

I think that there should be the option to hit one provisional ball, and I agree that in a mixed comp the Man could play a provisional from the ladies tee. If this is hit OOB or feared lost then the partner plays another provisional from the same position the provisonal was played as a potential 5th shot provisional. in theory this could repeat from this point until an in play ball is hit.

I can not see that there would be a need to play 2 provisionals initially as if one ball is found and in play and the other lost / OoB then the single ball becomes the active ball (I suppose in theory there is the option to select the lost OoB ball and hit 3 form the tee by the player whose ball was lost).

So imagine this alternative situation one player hits clearly OoB the next player hits the ball 20yds in front of the tee, how often would you chose the OoB Ball and play 3 form the tee versus playing the other ball for 2. I guess there could be a situation where this might be a possibility but rare indeed and a brave pair to call that. Is it an option, I think it probably should be. Though if the first ball is possibly lost then if the option to hit a provisonal is chosen that would have to become the ball in play where ever it lies if it is in play, as the hitting of the provisonal is discounting the ball that travelled 20 yds.

Again in a matchplay it is likely that the hole would be conceeded at this point assuming the oponents were in play or picked up in the case of a Stapleford comp. But for a storke play event, such as this one then it still has signifignace.

Graham,

You said  "So imagine this alternative situation one player hits clearly OoB the next player hits the ball 20yds in front of the tee, how often would you chose the OoB Ball and play 3 form the tee versus playing the other ball for 2. I guess there could be a situation where this might be a possibility but rare indeed and a brave pair to call that. Is it an option, I think it probably should be. Though if the first ball is possibly lost then if the option to hit a provisonal is chosen that would have to become the ball in play where ever it lies if it is in play, as the hitting of the provisonal is discounting the ball that travelled 20 yds".

As it is Greensomes, the player whose ball went OoB's wouldn't play the next shot with that option. It would be the same player who hit his Tee-shot 20yds. He could do it again and then they would sit either 1 or 3 in the same spot.

TheLyth