what impact? - the uk's equality act- law from october

With the passing of the equalities bill in Parliment there are likely to be some huge changes in golf clubs across the UK.

In order that we don't become the first test case...we are exploring what we will need to do to comply.

the main issue we believe will be " Despite the uncertainty we need to start considering the legislation and its implications to HGGC and our membership struction for next year  Once the legislation is implemented the implications are we will not be able to have separate mens and Ladies sections/membership."

 The legislation is being supported by the English Golf Union (www.englishgolfunion.org) and the English Womens Golf Association (www.englishwomensgolf.org).

 
The latest position is stated below
 
On 8th April the Equality Bill received Royal Assent and became the Equality Act 2010. It is not yet in force. The Act brings disability, sex, race and other grounds of discrimination within one piece of legislation, and also makes changes to the law. The Act does not apply to Northern Ireland.
Most of the Equality Act 2010 will come into force in October 2010, as intended by the previous Labour government. After some uncertainty about the position of the Coalition government, the Government Equalities Office issued a press release (link to equalities.gov.uk) on 3rd July to clarify the position.
Some parts of the Equality Act will come into effect later than October, and some may not come into effect at all.
 
see www.equalities.gov.uk for further information
  
Some clubs have already started to revise their structures to take into account the legislation.  Any research/background anyone can do to look at some of the initiatives undertaken would be worthwhile for all and provide good input.

This will affect every golf club that has different sections and more importantly membership costs which we interpret will not be acceptable to have lower charges for ladies and senior members....its simply a 5,6 or 7 day membership and all Saturday mens club competitions will have to be open to all lady members, playing off the tee of the day.... that's the implication of the new laws.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this or has your club started to take action to change things.

You and I both know CHris, that the whole system is a total mess. This will not make it any better either.

It is about time that it is recognised that the game of golf is for all players, male or female strong and weak young and old. but the system only caters for standards that are only applicable to Professional and very good amateurs. The rest of us have to try and compete against the most ridiculous odds and a handicap system that certainly handicaps me.

I was asked to fill in on Sunday for a match against another Crown course - Oak Park. I partnered Darren A and he had to give 5 shots to me 6 to a 19 handicapper and 1 to a 12 handicapper.

They started with gross birdies on the first and second and a nett birdie on the third, so quickly we were three down. I did not help much but Darren was out in 2 over par gross and we were 5 down they had a 5 nett 4 on a par five I cannot reach in three shots so another hole gone and then they made a birdie on the 12th and 13th so game over way out in the country.

The 19 handicapper was level after six holes with one birdie and one bogey he also was the one who birdied 12 and 13, so one can see that the odds were stacked against us.

I don't think it will affect the ladies/gents comps.  Remember what happened when Michelle Wie tried to play in the mens events?  No-one even tried to stop her, but she soo realised what she was trying to do was not in her own interests.  It is recognised in sport that the sexes are kept seperate for tournaments where strength, power or speed give an advantage. 

This legislation is aimed at removing outdated rules that in place in some establishments, and unfortunately golf is one of the main offenders.  I've seen all of the following that would be rightly outlawed under these new rules: -

• No ladies in the clubhouse before 2:00pm
• No ladies in the members section [of the clubhouse]
• No women permitted in the clubhouse
• No women on the course before 1:00pm
• No women members

The last course genuinely enforce this rule.  Women had to join a different club who were allowed to play on the course mid-week after 1:00pm only. 

As regards handicaps, perhaps this is an opportunity for a decent shake up of the system into something that works

Equality for the women members at golf clubs has had a detremental effect on Ladies golf. Since equal rights have been introduced clubs have decided that equal green fees  have to be paid , I have read that there has been a decrease of lady members of around 35%+  since introduced and this can't be good for ladies golf, Have our lady GS members have anything to add or have experience on this topic?

My view is that everyone should be treated equally, regardless of race, colour, religion or sex.  Unfortunately political correctness has tried to force this issue with the result that unless you are either disadvantaged or from a minority group you are not important.  It's been a massive over-compensation and has been exploited by the unethical.  And yes I have seen this first hand on many occaisions. 

For my mind, it is very simple.  Everyone is equal.  The only exception there should be to this ruling is where this disadvantages a specific group, as per Ian's note above about in competitions where men would have a physical advantage over women, ad then you have a women's only competition. 

The thing that winds me up is when you fill in an official document and at the the end there is a questionaire.  This usually starts with something along the lines of "To ensure we treat everyone equally, please tell us what sex, race, colour, religion, etc your are".  My response to these is "If you didn't ask anyone any of these questions and just processed the paperwork the same everytime, then you would treat everyone equally" 

Ivan, I draw your attention to my very first sentence; "everyone should be treated equally".  I completely agree that in the real world this would never happen and the word fairly is much more apt.  In response to you questions: -

In an equal world, I have as much right to the seat as them so stuff em

As regards soup, I don't take salt on anything and only take pepper on mashed carrot and swede

Would you be allowed to wear jeans and trainers into a nightclub?  No.  Every estasblishment has the right to refuse entry and can set down entrance criteria.  Setting a dress code is no different to setting a handicap limit

Would you be allowed to play Sunday league football in hard hat, steel toecap boots and a hi-vis jacket?  No.  It's not the appropriate and acceptted attire for the sport

Dave,

I think with dress everyone can choose / has a choice what to wear so can decide if they want to wear jeans at a muni or smart trousers at the private club whereas people can't choose their sex, race or religion (maybe on that one?)

Sanders,

in response to your questions to Chris,

1.  Would you flirt with a bearded grandfather? the beared grandfather has got taste

2.  If you saw two young ladies standing on the bus and you decided to offer one your seat. Would you flip a coin, or choose the lady tired from her gym workout, or alternatively the tired heavily pregnant female? have you seen perrys gut, they'd offer him the seat

3.  If a priest and a hippy ran towards you chased by a policeman shouting "Stop that man!" Which one might you choose to rugby tackle? He can't play golf what hope has he got of playing rugby properly?

all tongue in cheek

"He can't play golf what hope has he got of playing rugby properly?"

Excuse me Mr Flood, I think you will find that I have played County standard rugby union and have represented the Royal Air Force too.  Not bad when I was brought up playing the real man's code

You mean like the Black Police Officers Association, Ivan?

I can't wait for this to be inforced I know who's showers I will be using from now on

Matt,

that's only in the mating season!

It's not a rumour Matt and to get back on topic I don't discriminate between sheep, sex or the colour of there fleece,

Just remember lads I sh##'em you then eat them!!

To answer a couple of points above (the real subject of the thread)....

Competitions CAN be separate per sex - ie Mens and Separate Ladies - this does NOT contravene the equality act.

The crux of the bill is that you cannot have different categories or sections of membership - ie a Ladies Section and a Mens sections and a Senior section, as they are discriminatory on Sex and Age.

 Any (sensible) comment from people 'in the know' regarding this bill would be greatfully received.

Phil

Does anyone know if this is going to apply to Junior and intermediate meberships?

I for one agree with discount deals for younger members they are the life line of the sport but on the other hand I don't agree with the time restrictions imposed on them.

I played with a 14 year old in a comp at our place the other week and he made me and my friend a 16 handicapper look like real amatuers, luckily he can play when he wants at our club but he wouldn't be able to at a lot of other local clubs.

I believe that it is Club Membership that is the issue. Everyone will be a 'Member' of the Club. Then you can be part of a Section within that club.

TheLyth

Caron

 The Bill does not apply to anyone under 18, so yes it is legal.

 Or rather - it isnt illegal, but sounds a little unfair.

Phil

Caron

You didnt mention the fact that Girls COULD play in your original post - and with that fact I think YES they probably are contravening the equality Bill, unless the under 18 rule means that they can do anything for under 18's.

 It is a minefield - we need a good test case or 2.

Phil 

Chris,

I think your 3rd point would need looking into deffo, it's bordering along ageism? 

Christopher

If you read the BILL you will see that all elements relating to Age have been postponed until 2012 - so you dont need to do anything related to different age rates.

Its the Male/Female differences that need to be brought into line.

Phil 

Looks like this post is starting to be spammed by solicitor sites.  If any are genuine let me know and I will refrain from deleting/editing.

This may help, the 'Golf Club Management Publication from the GCMA (Golf Club Managers Association)' have a few relevant articles:

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/tag/equality-act/

Michael Shaw: An introduction to the Equality Act

Brian Butler: An overview of the Equality Act

Adrian Houstoun: How the Equality Act affects how you employ staff