putts per GIR
is there any update on when we will be able to view putts per GIR on a consolidated basis rather than a round by round?
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 12:52
Personally I do not believe that stats tell one which department of the game needs work.
Where would you rather be, Justin, on the fringe of the green 10 feet from the pin, or on the green but 40 feet away, with the risk of a three putt. I know my choice.
One stat shows a GIR, yet the ball just off the surface is the one you would choose everytime.
Likewise the FIR, I would rather be 260 yards down the hole and just in the first cut than 200 down the fairway.
Steve Marino in the Open championship was 356 yards down one hole but a foot off the fairway, this counts as a fairway missed, but was in prime position.
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:07
perhaps you're lack of understanding of how stats help improve your game explains why you play of 16.9.......I have worked with a lot of pro's in both Australia and the UK and you wouldn't believe the emphasis that is placed on stat collection in far more depth than golfshake provides and how they use the results to decide upon what they work on in their practice sessions.....its about how you interpret the stats collected rather than the actual stat itself! If your constantly on the fringe of greens and chip and one putt it will show that your putting is fantastic yet you may never be putting from 40 feet because your chipping puts inside 3feet all the time......
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:11
I think a round by round result is better for me anyway as the 2 courses I regularly play are miles apart in terms of greens. On Lakeside I expect (note the word expect doing this is not allways so easy) too 2 put from any position on the majority of greens on the Cavendish I'm glad to 2 put from anywhere outside 4 feet as the greens are so tough. Consolidating the 2 putting averages would make my average look good compared to the tough greens at Cavendish and bad compared to the easier greens at Lakeside. Stats are a good way to track progress but they do need to be look at carefully and like John says above not relied on to heavily as there are many factors they do not account for.
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:16
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:21
Hope this one isn't on pay-per-view
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:39
Be careful about making comments such as that when you don't know the person you feel has a 'lack of understanding'. When John has calmed down he will inform you that he is retired, has had a triple heart bypass, has dodgy kness and used to play off scratch.
I use the stats to try to highlight where I have and haven't played well, but they can be misleading. Given that the Belfry's greens can be anything up to 35 yards long, I have been known to chip when on the green. On some holes, I'd rather miss the GIR and have a chip than hit it and leave a ridiculous putt. On these occaisions a 3 putt is not too bad a return. I tend not to hit many GIR, so a low putting score is more a reflection of how well I have chipped than putted. More often than not, a high GIR % is coupled with a high putting score.
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:47
I've got to be honest I wished I'd never bothered to ask. I am pushing Golfshake out to all the Eastern & Southern UK Region pro's I play with to get them to keep their stats online in order to a) help them and b) provide Golfshake users with Professional stats to view as they will share them. This thread was only in response to an old one back in 2007 (see search results for 'putts per GIR) saying the functionality would be available soon and its one of the stats that several of the pro's have asked for.......
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 13:57
I should imagine any self respecting professional or good amateur would know which department of his game he needs to work on. Stats can be made to produce all kinds of results, none of which will help to improve ones abilities. Only practice and an ability to diagnose ones own faults will help achieve this aim.
My handicap has no bearing on my knowledge, Justin and as I have no wish to be moderated I will be relatively behaved in my response.
Having looked at your recent results one could say that your time working with many pros in Australia and the UK does not seem to have done you much good.
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 14:03
and John without wanting to be moderated either - there is a distinct difference between 'working with' and 'being taught by'......and if you're as knowledgable as you suggest even you should know one shouldn't diagnose one's own faults - even Tiger Woods tried that for a year and failed to win anything of significance - stats are there to help your coach diagnose your faults and areas of improvements....
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 14:22
these damn Mod's they spoil all the fun are such wonderful people!!
Edited by Mod - I have the power Floody, don't forget. Lots of love CP
Last edit : Wed 29th Jul 2009 14:43
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 14:33
A word of advice.
Don't come on a Forum and take all the members on face value, get to know them and their past first.
John P may show a Hcp of 16.9 but what does that mean to you, "the fact he doesn't know what he's talking about" or that after being off Scratch his health has suffered and he does well to get round and plays off 16.9?
You yourself talk about being influential with the Pro's yet fail to inform us of how that comes about.
So let on, what is your connection with the Pro's?
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 14:49
Justin, the majority of us are not in a position to have a coach constantly monitoring our swing, and even if we did have this facility, the coach would have to be able to determine the exact cause for certain faults that he has spotted. Therein lies the rub, finding the correct cause of a problem, not fiddling around with different possible solutions.
Statistics have no bearing at all in this, they are just for reassurance and information. A stat is not going to improve your swing one little bit as they tend to lie, as I have already explained.
To improve in this game takes a dedication that the majority of us are not willing to take, though I would love to be able to practice, I find it hard work and I am one of the few players around who just jump out of my buggy, hit it and jump back in again,. I don't take a practice swing even as it wears me out. Those who know me will confirm that I am probably the worst off the tee in the world, but I am prepared to bet money that if I were to drop a ball 275 yards down the fairway on any course, that I would not be far off par.
Last edit : Wed 29th Jul 2009 14:50
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 15:05
Although I am wondering why I feel the need to reply to any of this as this started as a simple question which could have had a very short answer.....
anyway here goes and can't wait to read the replies this is bound to generate...
During my five years in Australia I spent a significant amount at http://www.ahpga.com/ (I started on a handicap of around 30)(while their website is dire the academy is not!) where I spent time playing with some of the up and coming Australian Pro's (male & female) and some junior European ones lucky enough to afford the trip down under. Also through my own business I have two clients (both now good friends as well) who travel the world lecturing to the various PGA's - www.thegolfathlete.com and www.golfbiodynamics.com through which I have been introduced to a variety of people.(But I daren't get into how mobility restrictions influence the golf swing in case that sets off a whole new debate!). Now in the UK I have met and played with/caddied for several of the regional tour players in both the Eastern and Southern region and have been chatting to them about both the stats side of things alongside the biodynamic implications which are only just starting to be appreciated in this country.
now I've answered your question would someone be kind enough to answer mine?
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 15:28
Justin, just sent you a PM. Hopefully very soon with some other stuff.
In relation to this post, in a nutshell it's each to his own. The forums are only accessed by a fraction of the golfshake members with the majority using the site for score and handicap tracking. For which everyone will use the system, reports and analysis in their own unique way.
There are some updates coming soon, John Flood including some of your suggestions from 2008, so if anyone is interested in being a guinea pig and accessing/testing the next score tracker verion then please let me know.
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 15:31
Your question, Justin, can only be answered by the owner of the site. I suggest you drop him a PM.
Posting your question in the forum section was never going to get you your answer, but, as you know, forum members are an inquisitive bunch and all topics tend to spread out to other things.
I am sure we are all aware that fitness and flexibility play a large part in how we play this wonderful game, but when someone does not have the capacity to exercise, like myself, it becomes rather difficult to do what the brain is telling it.
We are very accommodating on this forum and I like to think, a pretty friendly bunch, so please do not disappear as I am sure you have a lot to offer.
Just remember that no matter how well you strike a golf ball, the bottom line is that putts have to be holed to score well and this little problem cannot be solved by any other means other than by practicing everything one needs to know, in order to putt consistently well..
Last edit : Wed 29th Jul 2009 22:12
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 15:33
Did somebody say "Bet Money" ? Feeling like losing some, for a change, David.
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 15:35
I'll be a guinea pig for you if you like Darren as I'm playing regularly at the moment. Do I have to sign up to do things like the guinea pigs in that new film (G-Force, not the exotic ones!)?
Reply : Wed 29th Jul 2009 21:31
I feel violated now
Darren, what did I suggest back in 2008? I'll gladly do some testing.
Reply : Fri 7th Aug 2009 12:24
That was the best "Pardy" I have ever witnessed. Keep up the good work Justin :-)