Competitive behaviour, gamesmanship and the like

So, what is the general feeling about 'sharp practices', which may fall short of cheating but are of doubtful honesty?

In cricket you have people who claim grounded catches, or sledge the batsman so badly he gets riled and plays a rash shot.

Football has its divers, rugby its gougers and tennis has its arguers.

So - are things like this commonplace in golf and, being new, should I expect a few deliberate coughs, overlooked balls in the rough and dodgy rule-claims from my opponents?  Should I in fact indulge in these things myself, or am I right to regard them as contrary to the spirit of golf?

Answers on a postcard, or failing that on this forum....

Interference with equipment, swing, course conditions is a definite no no in my humble opinion   ie ball stamping, coughing,

Sledging, hell yeah   as long as well before a shot

If no money involved & not in a comp then I generally turn a blind eye otherwise I'm more than happy to point out the 3 shots they didn't count or the fact that they putted out with a different brand ball than what they teed off with.

Golf on the whole is an honest sport, but there are ways to gain an advantage within the Rules and these are usually used in Match-Play.

Nope,

did notice it had a bikini attached to it though

I'm intrigued ,How do you learn match-play mind games???

Chris, I don't no what to say about your last 4 statements I'm speachless!!

Chris,

Just hope you don't play me. I have a nasty habit of burying people in shallow graves when they purposfully put me off my game.

I also find it advantageous to break the oppositions arms to give them problems with their swing!

Don't say it David it's not PC,lol.

Chris,

In matchplay your not allowed to offer any advice of clubs etc so you are in fact breaching the rules!!

I just hope your joking about all the others.

John, you can't have that Avatar

why & if your serious is everybody with a scantlly clad female as an avatar going to be subject to the same strigent rules?

John, point them out and i will notify them/remove

Ok, let me know what the rules are first.

how much flesh can be shown? breast size? etc

I think you have a extremely competitve edge Martin.

I have never encountered a playing partner or opposition not helping look for a ball in all the years i have played golf, and i would find it extremely rude if that happened when i was playing.

I have an extremely competitve nature but i would always help someone who had lost their ball out of  fairness and sportsmanship.

Martin

.........And because you expect them to help look for yours.

They can do what ever they want David.

I take it you dont help the opposition look, sad really i didn't expect that from you.

Not everyone picks on you Mr Devlin try reading Davids reply again.

Thanks for that Mr Ley, I did pick that one up wrong (although i didn't think anyone was picking on me) but you can look at that post two different ways, Iam wrong again

My appologies David Lythgoe but i am stupid

Martin

Mr Devlin,

I am one of the best type of guys to play with. I watch where shots go in the first place and pick a marker hoping that WE can find the Ball quickly. I always treat people how I like to be treated myself and thats got me many friends.

Sorry David i did apologise, just picked up your post wrong.

No problem Martin.

As far as I know there is no rule that states you must help you opponent(s) to look for a lost ball, but it's much better to get into the long stuff and look like you are looking than to stand on the fairway waiting!

Let's be right here, most people should just concentrate on playing 'Their' game and not worry about what the other(s) people are doing.

What does it matter if you opponent says "Pitching wedge for this short hole", on a 140 yard par three hole.  You know what club you hit so take your normal club.

The other thing is playing out of turn.  If you know the rules then just make certain it is your turn before playing, then this problem doesn't crop up.

Russ

I think know most pro's would help a fellow competitor look for a ball even if there's £1000's of pounds at stake.

I think golf is still one of the only sports where it is self regulated & has the best etiquitte around.

If a player told me on the 1st tee he wasn't going to help me look for lost balls that would only inspire me to play better & beat them. I would also think "what a t##t".

If someone said to me on the 1st Tee of a Match-Play Event "By the way I won't be looking for your Ball and you don't have to look for mine" I'd think that he may have holes in his pockets.

Etiquette does touch on the fact you should assist a player look for his Ball under The Spirit of the Game by saying "All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be".

Thats the first thought that came into my head David, no reflection on you Chris, but in all the years I have played Team golf I've never experienced it. Possible your opponent may not look as hard as he might who's to know but I've been very often luky that my opponent has found my ball even when they were down in the match.

As for the last statement I made in my early post if anyone had played with this guy they probably would have done the same or worse. Honestly this guy cheated and it was so blatant, myself and partner said we're not having this. On the 13th hole he'd tried to drive the green, we'd lost the ball in the sun and when we got to green couldn't find the ball. We looked all over and he eventually 'Found It' in the rough behind the green behind a tree. He chipped onto the green, rolled a putt up to about a foot went to tap it in and when he pulled the flag out a ball came out as well. It was his tee shot, but of course he couldn't claim it as he'd found his ball in the rough. So at that point we decided if thats how he's going to play we'll beat him and then report him when we get back in.

If this had happened to me and It was blatant cheating I don't think I would have carried on with the game, what format was you playing Chris and how long ago? David are you within your rights to abandon the game?

Here are some of the unwritten Match-Play Rules.

1. Never give a putt that wins the Match.

2. If you fancy your Putt don't go halves if asked. They usually don't like theirs.

3. Make sure your opponent thinks you are watching his every move.

And heres some Tactics

1. Give a number of generous consessions then ask them to putt a couple of short ones.

2. When they are inside you and on a similar line, try and confuse them as to how well you actually hit your putt.

3. On par 3's, If you have the honour again try and confuse your opponent as to how well you struck your shot.

4. Again on par 3's, If it is not your honour take out a club that is totally wrong while your opponent prepares to hit their shot. This can also be done in the fairway when the Balls are close together.

5. Always try and get your Ball "in close" first.

6. If it your honour, always try and put your Ball in play. Don't try anything fancy.

7. If your opponent walks quicker than you, don't rush, let them wait. And if they walk slower than you, be prepared to wait or walk slower yourself.

Dave,

I agree I would want to make sure that my opponent has in fact found his ball & not either dropped one or playing an incorrect ball which he can swap when he marks his ball on the green.

Also wouldn't this speed up the pace of play? If I was behind a 2 ball in a comp & I was stood on the tee & could see 1 guy searching for a ball & the other just standing by his ball I'd think it was really bad.

Dave,

To abandon the game is a difficult choice and depends on the circumstances. If its in an official Stroke-Play Comp refuse to sign his card saying that you don't agree with his score. If it is Match-Play, suggest that it seems something is wrong but don't accuse them of anything.

And if its a friendly, yes go have a pint.

Thanks David, I was up to speed on the strokeplay about not signing their card , I was thinking more about Match-play as that's what we play in Team golf match-play singles in Gwent and Foursomes in Glamorgan.

"suggest that it seems something is wrong but don't accuse them of anything".

By this do you mean explain what you have seen  and ask for an explanation but don't suggest they are cheating??

Yes Dave,

Things like "Oh I thought you had a Titleist 4 in play?"

&

"Gee you are lucky, I'd have sworn it didn't get that far"

Then they know you know something is amiss but think you aren't sure. This usually does the trick.

If you can, also remember what Ball they played their last shot with and when they say that another Ball is theirs say "But you hit a Titleist 3 in here". You know you are right so can argue with them if you want or just let them ponder what to do next.

At Filey we had a guy who cheated, everyone knew, so wouldn't play with him. He eventually left but had to join a club 20miles away because 'The Word' had spread.

Good points David suttle but would do the trick , I issued a dog's liecence last night in my team match at home (team won 5-0)so thanks for the reminder I think you wrote some where "don't lob over something that's not there" great advise got up and down with ease a few times. It made me think about not going for my 58* automatically It's an area I have struggled with given my Hcp,there's a couple of people on here I would not go head to head with regards chipping and pitching and the one holds a 22hcp.

Glad it worked for you.

Another thought for chipping is "Swing inside for run, outside for stop". Its all to do with your take away. Experiment and you shall see.

Dave,

I managed to hole a 30ft putt for birdie on Tuesday & then chipped in from 70yrd for birdie on the last.

If your referring to Paul's chipping then I agree I wish I could create as much check on my chips as he does. It's great to see it pitch, bite & then stop near the hole. Damn 22 hcappers!!

Yes another good tip David one that I use , I'm able to play a variety of short game shots very well my problem has been I suffer with Eric Morecombe Syndrome ,quote"I'm playing all the right  notes,not nessasselary in the right order" I should keep it simple.   I sometime's well quite often stand there with a couple of options in my head and then when executing combine both shots and don't do either resulting in a bad shot either short or way too long.

 I liked David Lythgoe's post, gave me a chuckle or two.... what a seasoned old pro.

  The other side of the coin is how you deal with this. It is difficult if you're on an unfamiliar course to filter out the truths from the bullshit that your opponent comes out with but that is exactly what you must do when the niceties are over and done with. If your opponent starts the barracking my way of dealing with it is:

Never acknowledge approval or compliance to their suggestions.

 Never, never show disappointment or get riled at any of your shots

If possible never consider halves as the very fact that you've refused him will give you the edge and that putt he has which will have got 3 inches longer in his mind once he asked will now be double that.

 Never take on a bigger hitter than you. You have the opportunity to get your second shot in first. If they are indulging in gamesmanship you can go on about balls and equipment technology (without explicitly saying that they're long because of this).

 I tend to hit a 1 iron as long as most peoples drive so if you're in that category definately do it.

 I used to find that on the green asking them to leave their ball whilst you putt used to bug certain people  

I'm like David Lythgoe in as much as I'll watch where the ball goes and pick a marker. Then I'll stroll up the centre of the fairway to my ball and guide my oppenent to his ball from the centre of fairway. Usually go to my ball and weigh up my next shot while they search and if they haven't found it by the time I've established what my next shot will be then I'll go and help them.