Handicap Question

Feeling quite pleased with myself as I managed to come 2nd in the midweek medal at my club this week.  It is only the second comp I've entered at my home club and wasn't too hopeful of getting in the top three as I only played to my handicap scoring a net 73. 

What I don't quite understand is the bloke who won shot a net 64 but he has only been cut by 2.5.  The par for the course is 73, SSS 71 and CSS for the comp is 72.  As he was 8 under the CSS  a 2.5 cut seems very lenient (his playing handicap has gone down by 3 as a result from 21 to 18).  Could the fact that he only managed 13 points in the previous week's stableford have any bearing on the small cut? Or is the cut reduced because he has gone down a category?

I believe it works out as .4 of a cut for every shot over in cat 3. In cat 2 the reduction is slightly less.

The 2.5 cut in H/C sounds about right to me.

Thanks Chris and Dennis.  Good to know how these things work.

Posted by Chris W:

There is no consideration given to past performance when reducing a player. Players go up and down purely on how they performed in that particular competition. There is no general play permitted now by CONGU and hopefully the years of Handicap Secretaries making personal decisions should hopefully be a thing of the past and the computer systems prevent clubs from unfairly adjusting someones handicap.

As the majority of handicaps on this forum are based on general play, does this invalidate a Golfshake handicap in the eyes of CONGU?

Chris, do you think that only qualifying comps should be used as the only means to assess handicaps. After all is said and done, many of us  do not get the chance to play competitions on a regular basis under the CONGU rules for such competitions.

I also feel that it is unfair on those who have to have ten consecutive rounds over their handicap before they are rewarded with another shot. The decimalisation of handicaps was a backward step in my opinion as is the CSS which does no one any favours.

I also feel that SSS is a waste of time as it does nothing to help the player when he plays at a different course with a different SSS. The handicaps at Staverton Park were not altered to account for the differences between players who play at courses with different SSS. So why have it. Par is good enought for the pros so why do we have to put up with this anomaly.

Excellent well put response Chris, as I knew you would.

Unfotunately no matter what you say in support of the system, the reality in all competitions is that the current handicap system is not working, either upward or downward.

In respect of your last paragraph I don't feel that it should be the players responsibility to work out the different CSS for players not at their home course.

A game that uses whole strokes should not be subjected to decimal movements in handicaps. It is a joke.

The SSS of a course does not take weather conditions into account but the CSS should (by the scores returned).

CONGU have set their system on SSS while the US with Slope etc is based on Par. Both systems have good and bad bits. The big winner with CONGU and SSS is that your Hcp is used at one level everywhere you play. I play Roundhay or Moor Allerton I'm 6 (5.6) not as by our US friends 2Hcp at Roundhay and 8Hcp at Moor Allerton.

Chris

Your Club is similar to my old stomping ground at Roundhay (9 hole Public) and although I agree with most of your arguments about it, it is basically a beginners course and seasoned golfers will move on.

For this +1 Hcp guy to be a "Home" player he must have shot a 62 or 63 at the course in Comp Conditions and so hold the CR and the 65 is out of date. If his "Home" Club is elsewher, which it seems it is, why was he playing off the Yellows in a Comp?

Looking at the Website I would expect to shoot around Level Par at your place and so play to 2 or 3Hcp.

Colin,

A course like yours does throw up this situation and gives most people a false Hcp (too low) so they struggle when playing elsewhere. So they try to keep an artificially high Hcp or move to another Club. Roundhay was and still is a feeder Club and you see a number of old Boys doing well, hence I call it a "Beginners Course". Most guys will be able to knobble a Drive and still reach several of the Par 4's in two, hence the low SSS.

When you get on the verge of Cat1 the new CSS systems means that we start looking at Clubs that regularly has a CSS at SSS or above. I have moved from Filey to Horsforth because of this. Filey was Par70, SSS69, CSS68 while Horsforth is Par71, SSS70, CSS 71.

So the so called more difficult courses become easier for the better player.

Something has gone terribly wrong with this game of ours. Pars for a hole were always determined on the length of the hole and a par 3 was anything up to 250 yards, a par four was anything upto 475 yards and everything over that length became a par 5. It was reckoned that 1 shot was alllowed to reach a par three, 2 shots to reach a par 4 and three shots to reach a par five, with two putts per green.

With this crazy SSS and CSS we are being asked to do the impossible and reach greens in lower strokes than was first envisaged for this game. Now there are some of you who do give the ball a good wallop, many of you on this forum by all accounts, but the game is played by amateurs and should not be subject to course designers who build for them and not those who will play the most golf on them.

I could take you all to one hole I know and ask you to play it 18 times and even though the length is barely 300 yds, not one of you would shoot par, yet the standard scratch for 18 holes of this par four hole would inevitably be something in the region of 66.

Like I said the handicap system is a joke and the idea of us all crossing the line together never ever materialises.

There are reasons for needing a reasonably accurate handicap even if the player is not a member of a club. 

Firstly to ensure fairness within the informal groups that often play at public or non-club courses. 

Secondly to have a handicap when visiting golf clubs or other courses that require a handicap.