North vs South - live scores

Live scores will appear here throughout Monday as the results come in.

Sunday results and fun:

http://www.golfshake.com/user/blog/1/1398/North_vs_South_todays_the_day.html

Here they come

Group 1 - South 7 and 6

Group 2 - North 2 and 1

Group 3 - South 1 up (down to last hole)

Group 4 - South 4 and 3

Group 5 - South 1 up

Group 6 - A/S

Group 7 - South 2 and 1

Group 8 - South 3 and 2

Group 9 - North 5 and 4

Group 10 -South 5 and 4

Group 11 -  North 2 and 1

Group 12 - AS

Group 13 - North 3 and 1

Group 14 - SOuth 4 and 3

Group 15 - North 3 and 2

4 to the South

1 to the North

how many groups still out?

A lot!  15 groups in total so a long way to go

Yeehah! go on the South...

are the results feeding back through the field?

Chris, yes

North 2 1/2

South 6 1/2

9 groups complete

6 groups to go

it's all over

Captains.

Tim Hawkins and Wayne Santorini

vs

David Marshall and James Marshall.

James was on fire, hit 38 points yesterday and today carded a gross 79 off a 18 handicap shooting 47 points!

South 4 up with 4 to play

South - 7 1/2

North - 3 1/2

Last 4 groups = NOrth up in 2.  unknown in 2

South need 1/2 a point

gross 79 off a 18 handicap shooting 47 points!

R U SURE ? 

gross 79 off a 18 handicap shooting 47 points!

R U SURE ? 

Ask Wayne Santorini

All over.

Group 14 - South 4 and 3    giving South atleast 8 1/2 points

other 3 matches are north 2 up.  So maybe 6 1/2 NOrth to 8 1/2 South but still matches playing out

Game over

Game over

Game over

All over

South win 9     with North on 6

47 points, that is real BANDIT territory, & I heard he didn't want to submit the card!!!!

Jonny,

I just saw that as well, & the few rounds prior to that he was actually playing to his 12 handicap!!!

Is he one of these people that say "I haven't played for a while so my real handicap should be a lot higher"????

If ever I get paired against him I'll just shake his hand a the 1st tee & save myself the bother.

John.

Stu,

I also thinks it's great that he played well on BOTH days but to not want to enter your card to protect your handicap does raise questions

I think he was embarrassed more than wanting to protect his handicap.. I played with him and his Dad on Sunday and he was showing signs of a low card then too...

Of course there has to be a winner for the trophy, but the real winner was the camaradie shown between the two teams. We are all getting to know each other better now and it is just friends playing together having a nice day out, with good weather and enjoying ourselves.

Paul,

I've not disputed the result nor the outcome of the 1st match. Was just curious as to why someone wouldn't want to enter a card when they've had an absolute blinder & why someone would manually adjust their handicap from 12 to 18?

The 12 handicap was back in 2007.  Some shocking scores since then with a 103 at Wokefield Park back in May 2007 at a golfshake.com event, maybe that was because he played with me   he came last that time

Echoing Darren, he played at the Belfry comp I organised.  He came in 20th in a field of 32 with 25 points and a gross of 104.  I chatted to him about the round yesterday and in his words "I'll never do that again, ever!"  He didn't want to submit his card as he was embarrassed that he had played so far below his handicap and he was worried he was going to be called a bandit.  Looks like his fears were founded. 

I'll be the first to say congratulations on him for a superb round and finally proving that he is the good player many of us have said he could be.  Keep on beating the old man James!

Paul,

correct the 'bandit comment' was said in jest.

Darren,

we all go through bad patches, simply enter your cards & your handicap will go up accordingly but surely we can't all just manufacture a handicap to suit???

& for the record, no sour grapes on my part.

It just seems a little fickle how when people show other scores from other societies etc & people have come in with 45+ points were quick to say 'bandit', 'how can they' etc but when it's a little closer to home we start back tracking

there was only a post on here a week back where everyone was saying what the limit was before you were called a 'bandit'!!!!

Jonny,

that is my issue. I had no problem with it yesterday when I heard the score & thought 'well done' but today when I saw that he had manually adjusted his handicap by 6 shots is a bit hard to swallow??

John P was very gracious before the event by asking if he could have an increase in his handicap due to his medical conditions & prior ops & I was one of the first to say to him "have as many as you want" as I knew it was for a genuine reason. He has also entered every one of his rounds prior to the event (correct me if I'm wrong JP ).

I think if anyone wants to increase their handicap on this site by a significant amount it must have to be 'vetted' by Darren or others to eradicate this problem.

All I asked, John, was if it would be acceptable to move my Golfshake handicap in line with my club handicap, and this i have done. My scores will show that I am not even playing to this current handicap and yesterday I think I was round in 94. I realise that three triple bogies can give a false impression of ones real abilites and as soon as I feel I am playing to a better standard then I will lower my handicap.

James is a young man who plays very little golf, so to play to the standard he does shows that he is a natural player. He took the money when I invited him down to Sherfield with his dad and we all know that he is much better than 18 handicap as yesterday showed. I can well imagine Wayne and Tim wondering what it is they needed to do to keep in the game. I would have been pretty miffed myself.

As we all know fourball better ball does not always give a true reflection on which is the worthy winner because if one plays poorly then it is hard work for the other person to keep the side together. I played poorly but managed to combine with my partner sufficiently well enough to hold off John and Chris who were also struggling. Foursomes matchplay is the only true test of both players abilities.

It would appear that there were many good scores yesterday on what I thought was a difficult track, so perhaps it shows that the handicap system does not work the way it was intended. I have always known that, of course.

Did you manage to find your way home OK last night John, or did you enter Oldham instead of Oldbury into your sat nav

James.

Well played.  Enjoy the moment.  Ignore the bleatings.  It is only natural to be embaressed about the points when you play a humdinger of a game. I'm confident that none of the regular contributors on here, including you, are anything but honest about their scores and in no way seriously consider you a bandit. It would not surprise me to see you playing off 7 in a future event by virtue of your talent so carry on playing, keep getting better, and let your game speak for you.

James,

Just explain to me & all the others why you decided to manually adjust your handicap from 12 to 18??

I have been in the position where for months I couldn't play anywhere near to my handicap either due to a long lay off, lessons, new clubs etc but I never once thought about changing my handicap as I knew eventually it would come good.

If you were a member of a club & you had a club handicap you would have had the 0.1 increase like everyone else.

I don't want to take anything away from your 2 excellent rounds but can you see where I'm coming from?

If you want to manually change your handicap again then do it for the right reasons & to a figure you want to achieve, not one you think you can easily maintain.

John.

No Chris, I ended up in Halesbury instead of Halesowen

David,

I have sent James a PM to explain my comments. Congrats on your win yesterday.

John.

Do you have a Garmin Stu?  Mine took me off the M4 at Junction 12 instead of 11 and dragged me down some of the narrowest winding roads I've ever been down! 

Did you go past the heavily fortified place with three electrified barbed wire fences surrounding it and armed police with dogs wandering around (even the dogs had machine guns!)?  Apparently it's the Atomic Weapons Establishment where they develop the next generation of nuclear and hydrogen bombs.  Glad I don't live around the corner from that!

James,

Well done yesterday and keep up the good play.
You played out of your skin and should not be embarrassed about it no matter how high the score is.
I would love to have an 18 handicap and play that well, manually adjusted or not.

I played in a society tournament on Saturday where I scored 42 points off of my 27 handicap - now I deserve shouts of Bandit - but I had local knowledge as it was a course i play regularly that no one else had played - and i still only came 2nd (lost by 2pts).
I had warned them i could be a bandit and everyone took it in jest but the guys I went around with said I played well enough to win anyway. But you are still not a bandit and should take the credit you deserve.

David,
Congratulations Skipper. Job well done on team selection.
Let's keep hold of the trophy next year.

See you both at Wokefield Park for the next GTour event in June if you're there again.

Well done James. For those that know you and your old man, they will know you're a genuinely nice decent family. And the last thing on your mind is to try and cheat. We all play to win,as you and your dad did, but not at any costs.

What would you have a guy do. Realise that he's playing a blinder, so deliberately play badly to appease the would be cheat chants?

You can't really compare this site and the handicap it gives to a club handicap. If I could play golf every week, then I'd join a club, and get a proper handicap. I can't, in fact before yesterday I hadn't played since just after Christmas. If you play regularly every week, and you're playing badly, you still have a massive advantage over a guy that may not have played for 2 years.

Once again well done James.

I've deliberately stayed out of this discussion, after all I was on the recieving end of that round.  True, it was completely demorallising for Wayne and me, and after a while I realised there was no way either of us could possibly match it (and I'm the eternal optimist) which again affected our shot making.  So we got slaughtered by him (not by David - he played like a tart as usual).

Do I reckon James is a bandit?  Not at all - it was amazing to watch and even he seemed amazed at some of the shots he was making - it just all came together and I reckon he played 2 bad shots all day.  I certainly wasn't resentful of it, jealous if anything, and if he doesn't go on from here and get down to and play single figure golf it will be a waste of a natural talent.  

Whilst I understand it may be a hard result to comprehend, but put the boot on the other foot.  Imagine you shot the round of your life.. How would you feel about scoring a gross 7 over round in a competition? I imagine you'd be pretty elated and slightly embarrassed at the same time.  I doubt you'd walk in after the round worrying too much about the calls of bandit etc.. Maybe I'm missing the point but let the guy enjoy his result without having to worry about all the comments being made about it afterwards.. We've all had our good days, James' came yesterday (unfortunately!).

Well done James, a great result!

(by the way, this has nothing to do with the fact I was in the South Team!)

Agree with you Lee. Having played with James on Sunday he showed immense potential but even I didn't see such a startling round coming from him on Monday.  Basically just very well played James, hope your form continues and you gain the self belief you should carry. We all have bad and good days.  I mean sometimes even a higher handicapper (like me) can have a round where they don't duff any tee shots and hit numerous greens in regulation and score exceptionally well on their 'shot' holes (eh Lee?!)

Jonny P, think I missed the point you were making as well, not my argument to have... so I'll get my coat!

Jonny P, I see where the issue lies, but my view is he changed it 2 years ago, its not as if he changed it specifically for the NvS comp.. (whilst the reason for changing it is still up for discussion)..

Also, even if he was playing off 12 he still would have been nett 5 under par.. If I remember rightly, the points he would of got for having 6 less shots still would have been enough to win on the day and I doubt it would have had a different outcome on the match he and his Dad played in..

Jim - I'm not arguing, just putting across my opinion...

I never argue.. Well, sometimes, but only if it justifies it!

http://picasaweb.google.com/caddydaddy.co.uk/NorthVsSouth2009#5327204559694715522

Photos from the day

Enjoy

Colin

Of course he will play like that again, David. You and I both know that. Bring him up to Sherfield again soon and I will let him take my money again.

Good evening Gentlemen?Yesterday and Sunday was my first experience of a full-blown Golfshake event, which I enjoyed immensely so thank you to Darren and the other guy’s who helped put it together. (Sorry, don't know their names, yet)It's disappointing now to be reading so many negative comments on what was a great 2 days, I turned up on Sunday only knowing a couple of the other guys but looking forward to meeting and making new friends that would hopefully lead to being able to play the odd game here and there with them. This is what I thought this site was all about, not the sort of stuff being banded around now. I agree with Paul Cook's comments, it's a game between friends old and new, lets not lose sight of that guys.Just for the record, I was on the runner up side and at the end of the day once the presentation was over I went up to James and congratulated him, now I don't know this lad at all but he genuinely seemed embarrassed and that’s not how he should of felt, don't make it worse by making a mountain out of a mole hill.Just remember James's dad has to read these comments about his son, How would you all feel if it was your son??Well done the South.Ps, to Lee Butler & Jim Dorrington, I've been out today and bought a bucket and spade!! cheers for a great game yesterday guy's.

Steve, I think you'll find that you have made a wise investment!!

Well played yesterday..

Guys,

having had some further communication with James I'm happy that his reasons for changing handicap was purely to reflect his then current playing ability & not for future gain / banditry (if that is a word?).

I'm glad that I've been able to air my views about this & get other people's perspective's which is what a forum is for.

I've explained to James I wasn't attacking him & hope I didn't take away any of his glory but felt justified in asking a few questions.

Let's put this to bed now. David & James if ever your in the Midlands let me know & you can come down to my course for a game.

Cheers John.

John, we're happy you're happy.

Paul,

been playing this game long enough to not worry about the score etc. It's more important to me to enjoy the round & take any positives from it.

Fancy another early start next tues or weds? Tee off about 6:30?

I feel your pain Mark.

I think it may have been better all round if you'd have left him to have a lie-in David, you're just cruel and heartless. 

Burger King........

Surely ya deserved something better than that James...

Or was dad to keen to get the trophy under lock and key....

James,

I'm surprised he didn't mention how many times you farted during the night!!

Yes Martin, my Sunday score has also been posted as Monday's date. No sign of my real Monday round yet, Darren's obviously still trawling through the mass of cards.  Will give it a couple of days and query if need be.....

Date corrected   all scores live.  Couple of shot reductions for those playing and James is done to 14

Write up effort for Sunday - http://www.golfshake.com/user/blog/17944/1408/The_Sunday_before_North_vs_South_2009.html

Write for Monday - http://www.golfshake.com/user/blog/17944/1409/North_vs_South_2009.html

Wohoo, Im upto 19. Just need a sub 90 round now.

47 pts , well that opened a can of worms didn't it....

I don't know the lad but if that happened on any society day

everyone would be questioning it..It probably wasn't worth

half the field turning up...Luckily there was a North v South game as well.

The simple fact is he shouldn't have been allowed to manually change his handicap.

Forget 'I don't play much or haven't played for ages, it just shouldn't have happened'

He should have still been playing off 12 and gone up 0.? whatever it is for the 3 rounds he has played this year.

I don't know what he was thinking when he done it ? maybe naiveity who knows..

If in friendlies or playing with people he knows they may have giving him a couple of extra shots but as it was a proper event the whole thing should have been noticed prior to the start of the event.

I don't want to open up the debate about James's score again but I do have something to add.  I played with him at the Belfry and had a throughly enjoyable day.  It was clear from the way he played and some of the shots he hit he has the ability to be an etremely good golfer.  However he also hit some very bad shots and looked incredibly rusty at times and I can understand why he altered his handicap to reflect the way he played that day although in hindsight I expect he can see it was a little naive.

Anyway well done James on a great round and I hope you go from strength to strength and can find a decent local course to get some regular golf in and get your handicap to where it should be in single figures.

No-one can blame David for being protective , we are all like that aren't we..

But perhaps a bit of useful parental advice might not have a gone amiss in this situation.

David,

I read pm and replied accordingly..

I hope that the PM's being sent around are not sent with too much 'nastyness' in them.

If they are, please send to me or another mod / Darren who can take appropiate action. We have had enough bad feelings on here in the last few months!

Well done James / David for winning your match and I look forward to playing with both of you in the future. Perhaps next time you come to Sherfield I can join yourselves and John?

David

Have you had a reply from me I have sent two but neither is showing in my outbox.

Dennis

You don't need a copy of mine it was just as David says.

No fellas, I wasnt trying to say that they would be, just that there has been some nasty PM's flying around and we dont need that.

Also, I feel that the comments on the forum about James would have been much more appropiate to be put in a PM to James / David rather than for all to see on the forum.

Keep playing James - if I EVER reach your standard, I will be a very happy man!

David

I did intend my post above to be supportive of James I apologise if it reads differently and I will remove it and this one if you indicate that you want it removed.

As I said I had a lovely day at the Belfry where James played the game in a wonderful spirit not getting frustrated by his bad shots of which there were a few and hitting some great ones as well.  As a result of that round I can understand why he altered his handicap to reflect his current form and I do not think that the alteration was unreasonable.

I too hope to see and possibly play with him again in the future at Golfshake events.

David Marshall Subject :
 your forum postMessage
 

Kevin..

James manually adjusted his handicap back in 2006.

He had only put in his 6 best cards on golfshake. That was the mistake !!!!

Having spoken to Darren Ramowski about this, if James had put in ALL of his cards including the Belfry and 3 other Golfshake events he attended then his actual playing handicap would have been 24.

He has played 14 rounds of golf in 3 years

Which would you prefer??  18 or 24 handicap??  You decide

My reply:

I don't really care....So David what you are really saying is James should have got 53pts....(think this forum would have blown up then !!) do me a favour. Despite you being protective etc....the bottom line is he should have been playing off 12 then +0.? whatever for his rounds that have been posted. Just because you don't play u can't all of a sudden post 3 cards and then receive a handicap for those cards.(unless a medical exemption or something). We could all cease our current handicaps..then post 3 higher scores couldn't we ? Not saying this was done or deliberate just pointing out what should have happened.

I wouldn't say everyone is satisfied by the posts in this forum...i did reply to PM

but seemed to have same problem as Jon..You are quite right he would still have won off 12 BUT with 41pts (very reasonable).

Freak scores must run in the family, obviously I've played loads of golf at a decent level and I'm not naive enough to think these scores don't happen once in a blue moon but I questioned the process which I believe shouldn't have happened as said many times..I'm not making an issue merely pointing out facts...If you don't like it.. Then I am sorry.

Anyway, good luck to you both..I think everyone can learn from this incident.

Likewise...think we should all leave it at that..Happy golfing to everyone.

Likewise...think we should all leave it at that..Happy golfing to everyone.