Would You Rather?

Would you rather be a.......

20 handicap player on a hard course

or a

10 handicap player on an easy course?

The reason I ask is that my golf club have two 18 hole courses.

One is tough and the other is fairly easy.

My handicap is 14 and I think if I concentated on playing the easy course I could get my handicap down to single figures this summer.

The problem is that I would I would never play to my handicap on a better course.

So do you go for the single figure handicap or play the tougher course?

Russ

Funny you think that, Russ, I played for a few years regularly at Stapleford Abbots and I did not find the Abbotts a tough course at all and the Priors has some really tough holes to make par at, 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 14th, 15th, 17th and certainly the 18th.

It all depends on how you feel about your own game.

On a quick check the courses I presume you mean from John's post are:-

Abbotts 6501 par 72 SSS 71

Priors 5871 par 70 SSS 68

For your Hcp it doesn't matter too much, but when you get lower it does, but not that much, so don't worry.

Here in Leeds, I used to play at a par 70 SSS 66 (Roundhay), while up the road was a par 71 SSS 73 (Moor Allerton). I was able to play to my Scr Hcp more at Moor Allerton than Roundhay.

It must be personal preference John, as I do find the Abbotts course harder than the Priors.

The holes you mention are tough, but I don't find the 9th that hard or the 18th.

My problem is keeping the ball straight!  When I have a bad day the ball can go anywhere.  So on the Abbotts it could be OOB's whereas on the Priors I might just be on another fairway or between fairways.

What I want to know is would you rather go for the lower handicap, even if it meant playing a golf course that was a big, open field, or would you rather be a decent player on a tough course? 

I think I'm going to go for the '20 handicap player on a tough course' as I feel it would benefit my overall game. 

This problem won't affect you John as you've been down with the very low handicap people and could play most golf courses with a very good score.

Russ

Russ,I think everyone on this forum know my views on the SSS system we have in this country. A par 4 is a par 4 and should not be theoretically made into par 3 and that is what happens twice on the Priors with a SSS of 68.

It is this obession with length that has made the system creak and groan. Years ago the longest course would be between 6200 and 6500.

As David L has just said he plays the more recognised Moor Allerton which is not an easy course by any means better than he can play Roundhay, simply because he has to find four birdies on par 4's just to break even.

The Pros play to par and so should we.

If the system worked between course then mabe there would be an argument for it, but I can assure you that your handicap does not change when you play a course that has a different SSS than the one you usually play.

Come and play the back nine on the Waterloo at Sherfield and you will see exactly what I mean. no par fives to help you out just two threes and seven very difficult par 4's.

Or reach par 5's in TWO!

Id rather have  better handicap.

if you ply well it doesnt matter about the course really.

(I reached 2 par 5's in two yesterday, 498 yds and 547 yds)

Oh how I wish I had that kind of power, Stephen.

the 547 played downwind about 20 mph which is the only reason, it ended up about 10 feet right of the green about 2 yds long, probably stupid because there is water infront.

Stephen,

Your really going to rip the PGA to pieces with long hitting like that. The 15th should be a doddle for you.

John.

Not stupid at all if you have the power and the confidence, Stephen. I used to hit par fives for two, many years ago, now I cannot hit them in three.

20mph wind from behind helps too.

Its a double dog leg, If a hole is 547, is that following the line of the fairways? ie. is it shorter if you cut a corner as I drove over the trees to shorten the hole.

 I'm surprised at David Lythgo's post as Roundhay is a very easy 9 hole course. I reckon that there are 6 birdie opportunities of the 9 holes so where's the problem?

 First is a par 4 Blind dog leg but easily reachable with a four iron.

 The Second Par 5 is easily reachable in two though I'll grant you of the back tee you may need a low iron.

Third is a bog standard par 3.

Fourth is possibly the only difficult hole on the course requiring a drive and a blind second 3/4 iron.

 Fifth bog standard drive and a flick par 4.

Sixth PAR 4 reachable  with a three iron though well bunkered

Seventh 110 yd par 3

Eighth see Sixth but witout the bunkers

Ninth Driveable par 4 through the trees. 

 I can't think of hole at Mooralleron that presents birdie opportunities like Roundhay.

  If I had to choose between Roundhay and Moor Allerton to post 36 points there'd be no debate.

 David, can you tell me what you think makes Roundhay more difficult?

I always thought that a hole was measured from the tee down the middle of the fairway.

So if you played a dogleg and could cut the corner it would make the hole shorter.

Now I could be wrong so please put me right if I'm wrong.

Russ

Patrick, I am sure it is because of the four shots taken off par for the SSS, whereas at Moor Allerton he gets one added to play to his handicap.

It also seems to me that if par fours can be reached with an iron then they must all be wrongly assessed. After alla par four has to be over 250 yards and if thatg is how far you can hit an iron then you are a rarity.

Can only comment on one scenario here, I'm a 20 handicapper who lately only seems to have played hard courses.  Frankly I love it.  I love having to try and plot my way round a new or tough track, sometimes with a planner, sometimes not.  Obviously, I'd like to have a chance to see whether or not I'd enjoy it if I was a 10 handicapper...

 Another second attempt.

 John, Russ, I understand the SSS but I'm sure David will confirm that my club selections are not ambitious. I do hit a long high ball, especially with my irons and I agree that par fours that can be reached with an iron are not par 4's but I don't think I'm a rarity.

 The first hole is a dog leg and to hit the green you have to go over trees which I'd say was 180 tops (excuse the pun) to a large green which is about 210 as the crow flies. 210 for a 4 iron is not overly long is it?

 The sixth is guarded by bunkers but not a problem for a low handicapper (reasonably long hitters will not take a driver here as OOB is paralell to the green. The eighth...well what can I say, no hazards and a pushed 1 iron found me OOB in the trees paralell to the green once. The ninth is a drive over the trees but in summer I reckon you could hit a lower one through the gap in the trees and the run would get you there.

 Of course you'd need to play it but I'm sure other Leeds based Golfshakers will confirm the above.

 I'm not contradicting David, far be it from me to question a more senior player. I'm just intrigued as to why he considers it more difficult.

 I played there six mths ago and was well p*ssed off with a 79 (though there were a few three putts and...God I remember, a fout putt which has just depressed me).

Roundhay is easy and your clubbing is spot on.

1. 4iron (with draw)

2. Drive and anything from 3w to 9iron depending on run

3. Flick over bunkers and run down

4. 3w and 8iron to wedge

5. Drive & Flick

6. Depends on Pin position, 5iron bottom, 3iron top.

7. SW to top green, wedge to 9iron bottom

8. Run a 3iron on

9. Run 3wood on (BTW I was there when the trees came down to make that gap)

Have shot 27's 28's and a 25 there.

What I mean is that when playing to a low Hcp it is easier (mentally) to manage a course where you can DROP more shots. I could shoot more 73's at Moor Allerton than 66's at Roundhay even though my Best scores where 70 at MA and 58 at RMGC.

BTW, give Bob Mac my regards if you see him.

 David, ok thanks for the insight. 58 is a hell of a score and card framing terrotory, as is the 70 at Moorallerton. I can't remeber what my best was @ Roundhay, perhaps low 70's but not memorable due to ease of course (I managed a 70 in a friendly last yr at Calverley....thought for a mo it was sub 70 but sadly arithmetic was biased that day, and again, not a difficult course). My best around Mooralleron was 78, another friendly, though I played in the World Corporate games there last August, rained from 8am to 5pm. Five hour round, grips soaked bt the third, cig packet disintegrated by sixth, card by eight which is just as well as I scored...14 pts.

Used to play in a Hot School on an evening, you needed to shoot sub 30's to have a chance.

Be careful Russ.  if you claim you'd rather be a 20 handicapper on a tough course that plays below it on easier tracks, people may accuse you of being a bandit.........