Swing Speed?

How can you tell how fast your club head speed is?

I've been in the American Golf driving bay where they have the computer that tells you all the information you would ever require, but is there a way of working your club head speed out without the computer?

Russ

Pretty easy Russ, but as ever it's down to how much time effort and money you want to commit.  I can't think of a way to do for free without a computer, but as you're typing on one I assume you have access, unless the microphone/audacity software system I used for the ball hardness test works.  The biggest problem you'd have is to calibrate it.

A cheap and cheerful way would be to get something like this  http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Test-Equipment/General-Testers-Meters/Digital-tachometer
/80867/kw/ which measures the surface speed of an object.

Appeals to my nerdy side this - may have more of a think.....

First question I ask Russ is "Why do you want to know?".  If it's to buy the right club, a fitting session will tell you that and more.  If it's for general interest then most golfers who (correctly) use a regular shaft have a club head speed with their driver of 85-95 mph. 

Makes my 75-80 seem very slow, no wonder the ball goes nowhere.

I average 93-94 mph and that shows in my driving distance, but I would gladly swap my swing speed for your short game John.  Short game is what matters most in getting a good score. 

The problem I have is I'm at the top end of the range for a regular shaft so when I let loose with a quicker one the head is lagging, the clubface is open and I slice.  Considering having my driver reshafted to a 'firm' (a stiff is too stiff for my slower swings) and that will mean being very nice to Dave Ley.

David will fit you up with the correct shaft, Chris. When you let loose with the quicker one it is essential that the increased effort in power is used later in the swing than normal. This will then let you hit the ball as normal.

Personally when I could play this game I very rarely hit at 100%, my game was suited to 80% power giving me the control I wanted and needed.

Chris, until you learn to swing from the inside there is no point going after it you just come even further OTT. More spin bigger slice ,you are correct to a point the club face takes longer to shut at higher swing speed, but on the right swing path this would be a slight block not a slice. Go back to when I hit my stiff driver along side yours , I hit yours about 5-10yrds straight  right of my first ball same yardage,and no slice. I witnessed you hitting some good drives that day I think your swing is more inconsistent than your driver. More work from the lower body Chris drive with the legs not the hands. As John said not 100% if you swing really fast and you loose your balance you haven't got a swing.Go draw your right hand back as if to punch someone I bet its not your hand that moves first. If it is your a big girlie!!

My driving has gained consistency (and straightness) since we played together Dave.  The slice is now gone and the ball flight is generally straight and arcing; I think the regripping with only a single layer of tape due to my short fingers is helping me to get my hands over now.  The pull has also (mostly) gone due to my attending the David Ley school of 'grip it propoerly you idiot'.  However, when I open up, the driver feels whippy. 

The main problem I am finding is I always seem to be to the right of where I am aiming.  I feel like I have to aim at the left side of the fairway to put it down the middle, but then I am concerned about the pull so I almost accept I will be in the first cut on the right.  I use the same alignment mindset with my irons and don't have the same problem but those have Rifle 5.0's in, which are stiffer than the diamana yellow board regular in my driver.  When I was fitted for my irons, the shafts were recommended because they are (apparently) somewhere between a regular and stiff and my swing speed is in that grey area of transition between the two.  I found that I was more along my perceived aim line with these straight away. 

Sorry Chris i did'nt realise you'd cured your slice,If thats the case I have a Driver shaft that will suit you sir. PM me , the rifle 5.0's are reg 5.5's being firm and 6.0 are stiff, if you feel you need your 5.0's slightly firmer say 5.3 i can do that also. I also have a S/H set of 5.5's.

Stuart, you are doing it correctly. Power comes from an acceleration through the ball to a nice high finish. Think effortless power instead of powerless effort.

I had a Fitting session for a fairway 3 wood last night at a great place called philips golf discount N.E in Killingworth, Newcastle.

To my surprise, my club head speed was between 102 and 105 mph. After trying everything I ended up getting a Taylormade Tour Burner with 14.5 degree loft, It was the best for my swing by a mile and i much preferred the heavier shaft over the std stiff shafts.

My best shot with it had 233 yds of carry and 249.6 yds total distance.

My driver swing speed is around 108 - 110, not too bad since i'm a total novice!

You have mail, Mr Ley. 

The slice was a combination of a grip that was too big for my child-like hands and a swing that was too flat, causing me to cut across the ball.  I have corrected my swing plane and things have improved dramatically with usually a straight ball flight or a yard or so of draw.  Unless I get it wrong and then mayhem ensues.......

I had a Fitting session for a fairway 3 wood last night at a great place called philips golf discount N.E in Killingworth, Newcastle.

To my surprise, my club head speed was between 102 and 105 mph. After trying everything I ended up getting a Taylormade Tour Burner with 14.5 degree loft, It was the best for my swing by a mile and i much preferred the heavier shaft over the std stiff shafts.

My best shot with it had 233 yds of carry and 249.6 yds total distance.

My driver swing speed is around 108 - 110, not too bad since i'm a total novice!

Stephen, with those stats you do not even need a driver.

Still gonna need one if i want to try and reach par 5's in two, plus i'm pretty consistant with my driver which i can get about 300.

If my putting and short game were any good at all i'm sure i'd make an ok player.

If I hit my driver three hundred yards, even at my age I would be round in par.

300 yards will put you in 13th place on the US PGA tour statistics for longest driving.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?101

With your natural ability to power the ball, like you are doing, means that you should be on the tour, after all, the short game is very easy to master.

With your new knees you might be able to John! 

As a wise old Pettitt once said to me, "It's not how you get there, it's how many you get there in".  If I blast one 280 yds into the first cut, miss the green, chip onto the edge then two putt, it's not as good as your 180 yd drive down the middle, 5 iron lay up, chip with a wedge to 18" (bad one for you) and a single putt.  You walk off with a 4, I walk off with a 5 and wonder how the hell I'm ever supposed to beat you! 

You are proof that it's not how far you can boom it off the tee that defines your ability but your feel, subtlety and accuracy on around the greens that matters.  That's why despite the fact you are falling to bits your handicap is still several strokes below mine.  If I'm nice to you, can you leave me your short game in your will?  I'll have to wait a few years for it but by god it'll be worth the wait!

I was just interested to find out if there was a way to tell what your club head speed was without using modern technology.

Before the computers how did the old players know what to use?

Was it just a case of trying different clubs and then buying the one that you hit the best with.

I was looking on the Speed Stik website and it says that for every 10 mph you increase your club head speed you will make the ball go 25 yards further.

My problem is that if I try to swing faster I lose all my timing and a big slice follows.

Russ

New knees you say, Chris. At the moment they feel awful and I can see no light at the end of the tunnel.  I am falling asleep all the time, because any physical effort leaves me puffed out.

The only difference between your short game and mine is that I probably think about it more than you do.

If we ever get to play together I will get you round in your best ever score, providing you listen. I will even bet money on it.

Generating more clubhead speed will make the ball go further, Russ, but the extra speed has to be applied as late in the swing as possible or direction will be lost.

Patience is the key with your knees John.  I had mine done when I was 19 and had to learn to walk again.  I was playing rugby for the RAF at the time and was devastated as I was pushing for the Combined Services team; a certain Rory Underwood was retiring from the RAF to go pro and he was keeping me out.  When you're as young as I was it feels like your whole life has ended and it does feel like you'll never recover but keep doing the physio as it will build strength and stability. 

Six months after my op the pain was almost gone and after nine months I was better than ever.  I get occaisional aches now when it's cold and damp but I don't overload them with rugby and football anymore.  Keep the faith, do as the physio says and the wait will be worth it, I guarantee it. 

I am just an impatient bu**er, Chris. I don't mind waiting to walk properly it is the pain that is getting to me. No sleep at night, dozing during the day.

You must have been a very good rugby player and even though I have never played the game I can appreciate its skills and love to watch it. Both codes infact.

The physio is giving me exercises to do that I find very uncomfortable doing, just increasing the pain all the time.

Thanks for your support, Chris, much appreciated, especially when one is feeling low.

Perhaps Doctor Ley will have the answer.

John,

Isn't that average driving distance though? If i catch the ball sweet I can get upto around 300, they average that including shots they dont hit fully.

I'd say my average (not taking into account the spoofs) is about 270.

I wish i found the short game easy to master, its shocking sometimes, when you get within 80 yds from your tee shot and end up down in 7 all the time, you will see what i mean.

Saying all this I have only played the game since July this year and my swing is looking really good on the Vector launch machine thingy, I just seem to hit one bad one and I go all to pot

Stephen, you have obviously been blessed with a natural power that very few of us have, with your length from the tee.

The US Pro stats are decided on, as you say, an average of two drives per round in opposite directions.

If it is taking you six shots to get down from 80 yards then you are indeed in a desperate situation. From that distance I am always looking to get up and down and at the very worst take three shots.

The old saying that you drive for show and putt for dough is pretty relevant in your case.

Only short game practice is going to remedy the situation I'm afraid.

Dont get me wrong, I dont do that all the time. But I would say it happens twice in a full round, at the driving range my short game is improving really well but on the course its inconsistant.

1 week last Sunday (albeit on temporary greens) I had my best ever and went round in 86, havent played since with the bloody weather.

Is 105 mph swing speed really that rare? its effortless now i have my swing technique better and stopped my overswing which caused me to come in steep.

I don't know whether 105mph swing speed is rare or not as this kind of information is new to the game. What I do know is that I play with some very long hitters on occasion and I have never seen any of them hit it 300 yards, which makes you one of the exceptions and therefore blessed.

What is frightening is that at your current handicap your swing could be improved even further and then you really would rank as a very long hitter. 

My swing seems to improve every week (all those £12's for 1/2 hour on the vector must be helping) the shops pro's say it looks like a single figure handicapper apparently.

I'll record it as my phone has a slow motion camera, and get your feedback in the next few days as it would be nice to hear different opinions.

I think it's important to understand the difference between swing speed and the club head speed and I still think a lot of people get the two mixed up.  For instance, a club head speed of  44 m/s (100mph) using a club 1.5m long with a zero flex shaft equates to the swing taking 0.15sec for a 3/4 arc swing - impossible to get anywhere near that sort of figure.  More realisticaly it would take more like 0.5 sec to complete the arc which gives a head speed of 32 mph, a figure even John would find easy to achieve!  The extra speed comes from the matching of swing speed and shaft flex, look how easy and slow a pro makes it look and they acheive 120 -130mph quite easily.

When I've had these things measured I came to the following conclusion:

You always try to hit the ball too hard at driving ranges and shops with this kit, sort of a macho thing - I can get 105mph with a driver quite easily but realistically on a course I'm probably around the 90 - 95 mph mark.

I'm going to Direct Golf tonight as I want to try a couple of things.  I want to see if the same driver as mine in a lower loft is better (got a really looping ball flight now I've sorted my swing plane out) and I want to see if a stiffer shaft is indeed what I need (watch this space Mr ley).  They have just had a new vector monitor put in so I will see what it says and let you all know. 

Tim,

My driver swing is about 108 - 110 and that is controlled, If i try and thrash it the speed goes down as much as 10%

My new 3 wood was averaging 102 - 105 at the fitting session

2008 Bob Hope Chrysler Classic (See bottom of page for stat definitions) Category Bob Hope Chrysler Classic Leader Field Average Minimum Clubhead Speed (mph) Dustin Johnson (124) 111 101 Ball Speed (mph) Bubba Watson (182) 164 149 Launch Angle (degrees) Mark Brooks (15.7) 11.2 6.0 Spin Rate (rpm) Ryuji Imada (3262) 2633 1871 Distance to Apex (feet) Anthony Kim (200) 175 154 Apex Height (feet) Kevin Stadler (125) 89 51 Hang Time (seconds) Fred Couples (7.4) 6.3 5.3 Carry Distance (yards) Anthony Kim (299) 268 229 Smash Factor Jason Bohn (1.484) 1.468 1.423 Carry Efficiency D.J. Trahan (2.551) 2.200 1.087 Total Distance Efficiency D.J. Trahan (2.860) 2.614 2.413 Total Driving Efficiency D.J. Trahan (2) 77 139 Year-to-Date Leaders (See bottom of page for stat definitions) Category 2008 Leader TOUR Average Minimum Clubhead Speed (mph) J.B. Holmes (125) 112 101 Ball Speed (mph) J.B. Holmes (184) 165 148 Launch Angle (degrees) Mark Brooks (15.7) 10.6 5.8 Spin Rate (rpm) Pat Perez (3427) 2685 1986 Distance to Apex (feet) J.B. Holmes (201) 177 138 Apex Height (feet) Fred Couples (122) 85 56 Hang Time (seconds) Fred Couples (7.4) 6.2 4.9 Carry Distance (yards) Henrik Stenson (311) 268 234 Smash Factor Jerry Kelly (1.484) 1.470 1.445 Carry Efficiency Billy Andrade (2.711) 2.182 1.156 Total Distance Efficiency Tim Herron (3.011) 2.638 2.243 Total Driving Efficiency Tim Herron (6) 170 325 Definitions Stat Definition Clubhead Speed Speed at which the club impacts the ball on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a radar measurement was taken (mph) Ball Speed Peek speed of the golf ball at launch on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (mph) Smash Factor Ratio of Ball Speed to Clubhead Speed (Ball Speed / Club Speed) on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken Launch Angle Vertical launch angle of the ball immediately after leaving the club on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (degrees) Spin Rate Rate of spin of the golf ball immediately after leaving the club on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (RPM) Distance to Apex Distance from the tee to the apex point on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (yards) Apex Height Highest point of the shot relative to the tee on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (feet and inches) Hang Time Elapsed time from launch to the point of ground impact on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (seconds) Carry Distance Distance from tee to the point of ground impact on Par 4 and Par 5 tee shots where a valid radar measurement was taken (yards) Carry Efficiency The ratio of a player's average carry distance and his average swing speed when measured by the radar device (Average Carry Distance in yards / Average Swing Speed in mph) Total Distance Efficiency The ratio of a player's average total distance and his average swing speed when measured by the radar device (Average Total Distance in yards / Average Swing Speed in mph) Total Driving Efficiency Player's combined rank of Carry Efficiency and Total Distance Efficiency.

I have just applied all that criteria to my own current swing and the conclusion is that  there is no way on earth that I can be considered a golfer.

311 ave carry from stenson! thats mighty impressive!

Hitting this distance on a course of 7000 yds leaves him with an average of 147 yds per hole. No wonder they score so well. At Wychwood off the yellows which is just over 6500 yds the length left on average would be 111 yds or a firm 9 iron for me.

So now the premium is put on driving distance not accuracy.

Maybe thats why he hits a 3 wood 95% of the time, he still gets that well over 250 yds.

111yds is a hard SW or easy PW for me

Lance Reader Long Drive champion

He'd be fun in a texas scramble

Statistics:

OK, here's my average stats across 10 balls from the launch monitor tonight using my driver.

• Club head speed - 91 mph
• Ball speed - 124 mph
• Carry - 191 yards
• Total distance - 223 yards
• Launch angle - 13.6
• Back spin - 2400 rpm
• It also shows I have a 5.8 push with a soft fade

Given that I was hitting down an open range, I can't disagree with the stats I could see like distance and the soft fade.  I hit a couple I wasn't happy with in that 10 balls, but I figured that is what would happen on a course so not including them would be the wrong thing to do.  Longest was about 245 total and fastest head speed was 94 mph. 

I'm there tonight @ 6:30 so will do the same

Any update on your launch monitor stats Stephen??

Think I need the Dave school of, "grip it properly you idiot!"

or there's this kind of thing (don't be taken in but the price)  http://www.medicuspowermeter.com/land01b.php?sid=43791

don't know what you mean by that Paul, why would I lie? Lyers always get found out. 

Dave,

I hit only 5 drives as most of the time was spent working on technique using my new fairway wood but here are the stats;

1. 107 mph, 14.8 loft, 245 carry, 272 total

2. 106 mph, 12.6 loft, 228 carry, 258 total

3. 109 mph, 15.3 loft, 238 carry, 251 total (had slightly more backspin as i hit down on it)

then he told me the record on their machine is 119 mph so i put a bit more into it and got the next one.

4. 112 mph, 13.9 loft, 261 carry, 293 total

5. 110 mph, 14.6 loft, 256 carry, 278 total

I have uploaded a slo mo video of my drive and 9 iron but they're taking ages to appear on the site. Going back Friday so will post progress. 

The scary thing was that he told me if i start averaging about 110, with ball speed over 160 I might need to start looking at an extra stiff shaft which means a new driver!

What you have to find Stephen, is the swing speed that you can re-produce everytime. An erratic swing speed will only produce erratic results and when you finally stop being obsessed with length and realise that accuracy is more important your handicap will start to tumble.

I'm not obsessed John, My driver is the most accurate club in my bag. I am a beginner and as my technique gets better the speed is going up, only been playing since July this year.

Due to temp greens and weather I only have two score cards signed up to now so dont even have a handicap, I posted all my rounds on here (not just the scoring one's) which is why it shows 24.5 - I'll get that changed when I get my real handicap - hopefully this saturday.

Here are the links to my swings - i'd be interested to hear some feedback from you all.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fKnRgAZDBlM 9 iron

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4uLYN-p9Kx0 driver

Cheers Paul,

I have put a link to some video's - you will see I am far from a powerhouse build lol!

My speed is all generated with my hip turn I think!

take a look and tell me what you think.

I either hit it dead straight or slight draw normally, that drive went dead straight.

I can't see your swing yet Stephen as you tube is blocked by our servers.  If you have a naturally powerful swing and long drive then I suggest you work hard on your short irons and wedges.  The guy Paul mentioned above works with me and drives 270 to 300 yards consistently, but the best part of his game is his short work.  He's disappointed if a wedge after his drive leaves him with a putt greater than 4 feet!  There are others on here (John Pettitt for one) who cannot drive more than 170 yards, but I bet you a pound that if you played him he would beat you on gross because the accuracy of his short game is deadly and his course management is second to none. 

You have a natural ability to hit the ball a long way which is a massive bonus.  All you need to do is develop some touch and feel around the green and learn some course management, which comes with time and practice.  Practice twice as much on your weaknesses than your strengths and you'll soon be down in single figures. 

When I'm at the range I usually hit 75% with short irons and wedges and the rest between the driver, hybrid and 3 wood.

I am actually looking forward to getting back on the course to see (hopefully) a good improvement as its been 3 weeks of hard practice (3 times a week + 1 lesson a week)

I have finally learned how to chip and pitch which i think will bring down my score a decent amount and my direction with PW SW and 9i are getting much better.

Stephen, impressive stats your spin rate must have been close to perfect also apart from #3 which you popped. Launch angle and swing speed is very good and you dont need to go extra stiff.I suspect you swung better and freer on the on the launch monitor than in your vid.. I had a good look at your swing there are a few faults there which wouldn't take much to put right and as you are having lessons i'm sure he will hit on them . Good luck.

Dave

Off to hone my game now.