pull hook

Hi guys,desperately hoping some of you can help me,consistently hitting a pull hook,alignment seems to be ok,definately have in to out swing(divots prove this)so assume i must be flipping hands over at impact, or may there be some other cause of which i'm unaware?Grateful for any assistance.Best regards Hugh Reid.

Hows your right foot through impact? still grounded? have you clerared your hips to the left side? are you swinging out of balance? are you just swinging your arms and not driving through with your legs?

Great reply, David, that should get him thinking.

Hi David,many thanks for your comments,had a few swings in back garden when i recieved your reply and i think clearing of hips to the left may be the problem,right heel is just lifting at impact and i always go through to a nice balanced finish,any tips or swing thoughts for clearing the hips would be most appreciated,thanks again,Hugh Reid.

Hi Hugh, firstly before we go any further go grab a club ,grip it as you would .

I want to now the position of your Left Thumb and also your R Thumb (i'm taking for granted your R handed) on the grip and 12 o'clock being center line.

Dave

Hi Dave,yes i am a right hander,looking down at hands and taking 12 o,clock as centre line,left thumb is 2 o,clock,whilst right one is 11 o,clock,i try to have my" v,s" pointing to right shoulder.I have experimented in the past by weakening my grip with no great improvement though,current h/cap is 13.5 but always striving to improve,thanks again Hugh.

Hugh, ok, take your club and set up at address using the grip you have described,when you have the club set square squeeze your grip tight.........note what the club face does??

now re-grip with your left thumb at 12 and your right at 10 both v's pointing to your chin,then squeeze.....................club face?

Stick with me...

Dave

Eureka,did as you said Dave,with old grip squeezing tight closes face,with your suggested grip club face remains square,cant thank you enough,will try this out on course tomorrow and post reply.Who needs instructional books/video's with guys like you out there,keep up the good work.Hugh Reid.

Hugh, not out of the woods just yet (excuse that but i've been there) ,now you say you are into out and this is good as this makes the next step easier.

I'd like you to take your 7 iron at home on your carpet and set up at address as if a ball is in the middle of your stance. Do a forward press with your hands until the shaft runs up on the same angle as your left arm to your shoulder.You will notice that your left wrist is flat and facing targetline and your wright wrist is slightly bent.From this position i want you to push the club forward down targetline with pressure from your right hand feeling the shaft with your index finger,keep pushing the club into the carpet until your hands are approx 4-5" passed your left hip. Repeat this about thirty times...............................Let me know what you are feeling .

Dave

Hi Dave,tried as you suggested,the feelings  i get are as follows;pressure on right hand/wrist, weight transferance forward/ right heel lifting off ground,right arm straightening through elbow,is this what you expected?Thanks Hugh.

 

Hi hugh, you've picked up on them well, go back to the finish of the carpet drill .I want you to feel whats going on in the left leg. You should feel the left leg brasing with a slight roll to the outside of your left foot , and the feeling of climbing on top of your left hip socket.How solid does this feel ? you now have a solid pivot to swing around.

From the finish position of the carpet drill, in slow motion with the presure of the right hand swing out to 3 o'clock down the target line maintaining your spine angle.Feel as if your arms are trying to leave thier sockets then roll over to the finish................let me know how that feels.

How'd the grip feel on the course??

Dave

Yes Dave,left leg feels really "posted",from your drill impact position swinging out to 3o'clock gives a real feeling of extension in right arm,forearms almost touching r/h starting to crossover l/h(looks almost professional) although i suspect this feeling may be harder to re-produce in actual play until it becomes ingrained.Tried out new grip on course today(Tuesday) it worked wonderfully,i was especially concious of r/h index finger at impact(is this what you would expect) for the first time in a while i was able to join my partners on the fairway rather than ploughing a lonely furrow up the l/h rough,cheers Hugh.

You really are getting it Hugh, the r/h index feeling is what i expected , also i would expect solid compression of the ball and  longer shallower divots.

If you can swing the club from the top keeping your right elbow close to your body down ito the carpet drill and then down the target line to a full finish in slow motion and in balance,this will help ingrain.

As a pre-shot routine if you do the drill on the grass (just the carpet drill) that wiill set you up.

 Keep practicing ,

Dave

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dave for all your assistance,i will continue to practice this till it becomes 2nd nature,the drills and feelings that you have given me,even at this early stage,will i'm certain lead to lower scores and more enjoyable golf in the future,if you are ever up in south west Scotland let me know and we'll have a game ,happy golfing ,Hugh.

Do you do DVD's David?

Think you should take up Tony's suggestion Dave,you've certainly did my game a power of good!

I've been keeping an eye on this thread as the last time I played I developed a stunning pull.  I was booming the ball off the driver long and straight, but it was going off 30 degrees left.  I'll be 'Learning with Ley' when I get back and I'm reunited with my bats.

Thanks guys , but really im just a student of the golf swing myself trying to get better everyday.

Tony no DVD's im afraid , but if i you need any advise  i will help if i can.

 

   

Hi Chris,i had a similar problem myself but with all the clubs,think if you adopt Daves advice above you'll be back up the middle in no time.Its also wise to regularly check that your basic fundementals (grip,stance,posture etc)are all sound,sometimes small faults can creep in which you might not be aware of.Anyway hope your back on track a.s.a.p.

I tried Dave's "grip it tight and see what happens" trick and my club face did indeed close.  I have changed ny grip per Dave's instruction and the pull has gone.  Last Saturday morning if I missed the fairway it was in the first cut.  Thank you Uncle Dave. 

Nice to here chris and glad it's helped............................................out of intrest has anybody else found any of the above useful to their swing??

dave

You have totally wrecked what was left of my game David, as attempting to get into the positions that you are able to has,broken my back, twisted my knees, collapsed my hips and generally made me very depressed.

Having said that, myself and JohnnyP are going to get our revenge on Tuesday.

Hi John,believe me i can sympathise with you,after trying out Dave's tips i felt as though i'd been in the ring with Mike Tyson,but perseverance and pig headedness paid off,for the record Dave,there's been a sustained improvement in my game,still hit the odd hook,but 90-95% better than before,John ,keep at it,hark back to those halcyon days when i'm sure your swing was full,fluid and composed.Watch that back though! Cheers Hugh.

Hugh, sorry mate but my response to David was a joke as we are are friends and are playing together next week.

You will not go wrong though if you listen to what he has to say, Hugh, as I also am a student of the golf swing, albeit from a different era.

Halcyon days, indeed they were, and what I use to hit the ball with these days cannot possibly be a called a swing, just a semi controlled hack.

I'd gladly swap your semi-controlled hack for my uncontrolled one John

Your swing is sound enough, Chris, it is just the path that you swing it on that needs slight adjustment. No pain, no gain, is the old saying and if you wish to have dramatic improvement then change is necessary. I showed you what is required at Ombersley. I have no doubt that David L pointed out the same thing to you when you played with him.

There is no mystery to this game, the basics are simple enough.

"the basics are simple enough"

Unfortunately in this case John, so is the player!

I can assure you I am working on the pointers you gave me and, coupled with the modified grip a la the Ley school of golfing, the pull has gone and my shots on my last round were 85% straight, 10% gentle fade (usually off the driver or fairway wood) and 5% gentle draw (usually off the long irons).  It comes to something when I was disappointed with the way I played but when I added up my score I'd shot 2 under net.  And to quote one of my playing partners "you left about half a dozen shots out on the course". 

It's coming. 

Chris, are you sure he didn't say "you've left half a dozen pro v1's out there?"

David, the answer to your question is "The bit between the ears".

 

"Hi John,believe me i can sympathise with you,after trying out Dave's tips i felt as though i'd been in the ring with Mike Tyson,but perseverance and pig headedness paid off,for the record Dave,there's been a sustained improvement in my game,still hit the odd hook,but 90-95% better than before,John ,keep at it,hark back to those halcyon days when i'm sure your swing was full,fluid and composed.Watch that back though! Cheers Hugh."

Music to my ears ,nothing is for nothing and you have been rewarded for your hardwork and by sticking to it. Why did you stick to it ,certianly not because of me we've never meet its because of what  you felt ,and the positions feel good ,and the ball never lies.

Really impressed with the results but not at all suprised,I suspect the odd pull is from swinging to fast(are you nodding).It's still early days for you nearly a month in but when you feel that what you are doing is second nature PM me.

I too went through some achy time,you begin to use different muscles,it passes.

And for the record most of what i have spoken about is from pre Johns era.

Dave.

I did not realise you were that old, David, you have worn well.

Chris ,read and do post #9 it will help.

 

For those of you that hold your club with the the thumb of your left hand(RH golfer)at 1-2 o'clock ,do the squeeze test...............ever wonder why your ball ended up over there??

  I feel it sometimes John,I would have loved  to have watched the old boys play,Jones ,Hogan,nelson,Snead,Hagan to name a few also loved Thomsons swing.  Well , the only modern thing to have help my swing John is The Tinternet. Go find,go watch,go study,go dissect, go do.

You are nearly there, David. You drive very well, your iron play is superb, but all that skill is wasted if you do not convert your chances when they present themselves. It is hard to concentrate when playing with idiots like me. What you need is competitiive strokeplay competition, but to get into those you need to be a couple of shots lower in the handicap.

I only ever used to play competitive golf and this is what you need and then you will accomplish what you are seeking.

I agree totally John, and my short game is an embarrassment I'm going to get ftted for a JIGGER!!!

That is the last thing you need, David. A bit more belief in your abilities, not forgetting even the best players in the world play the perecentages.

Again your right, If i keep telling myself i have a poor short game it can't help

Hi John, i did realise you were joking,these past 4-5 months since i joined golf shake i have also followed the advice you have given(RIGHT ELBOW IN RIGHT POCKET )was a particularily good one i thought,from the tips you have given i suspect you must have been an exceptional player in your hey-day.I always find that pro lessons,books and video's are ok up to a point,but they never seem to tell you the full story,wheras tips from fellow golfers tend to be far more comprehensive.Here's hoping yourself and David Ley among others, will be there to assist the rest of us in the future,cheers Hugh.

Myself and David L are always prepared to offer our opinions on any aspect of the golf swing, bearing in mind that if anyone disagrees, then they have the right to come out and say so and give the reasons why. Different opinions are a good thing in helping to get a concensus.

Absolutely John,as you say different people have different opinions/views on golf swing techniques,some may work for you individually others may not,at least if they are in the public domain we can try them for ourselves,cheers Hugh.

I had a lesson on my driving about three weeks ago.

It turns out that I had the ball a little bit to far back in my stance, and my hands were too far away from my body.

Once I had got used to these new starting postitions my driving improved significantly.

For a week or so my driving was really good, then last week I was playing, never hit a bad drive.  Then on two consecutive holes I hit a pull hook!  Looking back on these two shots I realised that I had teed the ball up on a slight down slope.  This resulted in my swing being too upright and led to the pull hook.

I now make sure that I get a level piece of ground when teeing my ball up now.

Russ