Preferred Lies

Three questions in one.

 Can you pick up your ball and clean it anywhere on the course while "Preferred Lies" is in operation? 

 I read something somewhere about the ball having to be "through the green" , what does this actually mean?

Can you place the ball after cleaning it or do you have to drop?

Cheers in advance

Most clubs operate a lift, clean and place within six inches, no nearer the hole. It usually only applies to cut portions of the course - fairways.

Prefered lies?  The cheques in the post...

If you think that makes you a hero, Paul, you are mistaken, as if it is a local rule, the club are requesting you to do this for a reason, and the reason is they do not want the course to be hacked to pieces from poor lies. Just like they ask yo to take a ball off a teeing ground if it lands there.

In the USA the majority of courses do not get into the same state as some of ours, in fact at many of them one can just drop a ball on the tee and hit it with a driver.

Agreed, Wayne, Winter rules are rules and should be abided by.

I'm with you on this.  It's winter RULES, not winter requests.  They are designed to help the course, not the player and should be abided by.  Anyway, any opportunity to make this game a little easier should be grasped with both hands in my opinion. 

Oh, and in answer to question 2 David, "through the green" as per the R & A rules of golf is below: -

 Through the Green. 

“Through the green’’ is the whole area of the course except:

a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and

b. All hazards on the course.

In other words, anywhere that is not a tee, green or a designated hazard eg bunker, water hazard.  If you are in the trees, on the fairway or in the rough, you are through the green. 

Rules are rules, Chris as you have agreed.

I played in a Pro Am at Penina G.C. Portugal many moons ago with Christy O'Connor Snr and after the torrential rain the course had taken it was decided on a lift, clean and place within 1 club length.

I witnessed that day how the Pros interpret these rules. Christy was two feet off the putting surface in the fringe and cleaned his ball and then placed it within the one club length rule, no nearer the pin, but now two feet on to the putting surface. When I questioed him abput this he said that is the rule and I take advantage of everything offered.

Then I suggest that you read my answers again then Paul Summerside as I called you a hero for playing it as it lies, in your attempt to show off, when in actual fact you were breaking the rules of the club.

If the ball is on sodden ground then relief under the casual water rule would be available at any time of the year.

I too give up on people who cannot read and understand a post, just like yourself.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, Paul, remember that, even though my eyesight is failing I still have all my marbles and can cope with people like you all day long.

Now run along and try and reduce your handicap.

You sure you've got all your marbles John?  You can't have if you still play

Let me tell you Mr Perry, marbles is just as difficult as golf. My body may be 71 but my brain still thinks it is 18.

Hi Paul, all golf has become slow, IMO, summer and winter, for many reasons and I agree that lifting cleaning and placing does take time as we all do it on the putting green alone. Although in actual fact most players just turn their ball over with the clubhead to improve the lie, not usually bothering to lift and clean, unless of course it is covered in mud.

You are welcome to play at my club anytime you wish, Paul but even though I am a very quick player I cannot control what goes on in front of me, and have now been conditioned to accept it.

I will just say that rules are there for a purpose and we should all respect them. It is an offence to waive a rule of golf.

Your stats show that you are possibly a good player but it is not yet indicated in your golfshake handicap yet.

I think the difference of opinion in this thread may stem from the blanket granting of preferred lies through the winter months regardless of conditions.  Having looked at the R and A rules it states that, 'The local rule should be withdrawn as soon as conditions warrant.'

As Paul implies you can get very good dry conditions in the winter months but I suspect that few local committees bother to withdraw the preferred lies rule which the R and A appendix says they should. So I guess the debate could be what rule you play to if a local rule runs contrary to the R and A rules or maybe that is another thread.

Interesting point, Jon, yes I agree that there are many courses of the heath and heather type, along with the links courses whose fairways remain dry all through the winter, but what you are probably not taking into account is that grass does not grow in the winter and fairways at these courses tend to get a little bare.

It is for this reason that relief is granted under the winter rules usually applied at these clubs.

Clubs are allowed to make their own local rules even if they are not in line with the R & A. My biggest gripe in this respect is internal out of bounds.

I accept your point John that courses need protecting during periods of no grass growth.  However I believe grass does grow when the temperature is 6 Celsius and above so I would still maintain that given the milder winters it is not necessary on some (possibly most) to have blanket winter rules from October or November through to the beginning of April.

I have no wish to argue this point, Jon, but every links course I have been a member of have very rarely needed to cut fairways, even in the summer, so it is obvious that some grasses do not grow that much. In fact my lawn, when I lived in London after the last cut in November would not have moved much till the spring.

It is not for us to decide what is necessary, the club make the rules and we have to abide by them, although I am quite sure there ae many who don't.

I am fortunate that my club never has winter tees or winter greens, in fact they still let one play when the greens are rock hard with frost, but once again it is because our course is built to USGA spec and the grasses used are very slow growth ones.