USGA type courses, Johnny Walker Championship at Gleneagles

This is actually two threads in one.

First, I'm watching the Johnny Walker Championship from Gleneagles. I'm assuming that this one is again at the PGA Centenary Nicklaus designed course of the three.

I played this course two days after this championship in 2003.  The opening day I played the Queens Course and just got murdered by the course, the wind, the heather, etc.  

The most beautiful set of courses I've ever seen.  The Queens Course from what I remember never had one hole that you could see another.  The only thing you could see is a picture perfect painting of the Scotish countryside.  

The Nicklaus course was just fantastic.  I was watching these guys hit there second shots tonight on hole 1 and could not help but remember when I played that hole.  My third shot to the green was from where ALL the pro'd divots were!  And a lot of divots to say the least.

So that brings me to John's hatred of USGA courses.  What exactly is a USGA course?  So what's wrong with a nicely designed course?  Do we all have to play a Gleneagles, Carnoustie, Kingsbarns, St. Andrews, type courses to be considered a real golfer?   

I just played a links course, Corballis, outside Dublin last month and at par 64 or something, was the worst ever round of my life.  Without the help of forecaddies, I did not find one ball I hit off the tee.  Not one. Even when I hit them straight, the bumps and humps shot my ball somewhere else and I never ever had one shot that I saw actually land.  Another links course in the area, I think it was called the Island or something, was just so crazy that I didn't even consider paying $200.  I saw no less than 20 people tee off and not one of them hit the fairway and many spent a lot of time in the "rough" looking for balls.  

But I would consider the basic design of the Gleneagles course a USGA type course set in Scotland with all the heather and grass right off the edge of the fairway.  That is not an easy course.

Which brings me back to Trent Park.  Is that a USGA type course?  The only reason I'm getting bored with that place is not because of the course itself which I live very much, it's the 5 hour rounds and donkeys playing in front of me or with me.

Seeing as my comment prompted this thread I suppose I am expected to respond.

USGA specification means that every course has to conform to certain criteria and unfortunately our English weather is far more suited to English grass seed which IMO is the best. I play on one of these USGA courses and althought the layout is OK the greens are never green, have very little surface grass and are constantly dressed with sand to keep them true.

I assumed that as Crown Golf also own Trent Park that it would be similar, I have never played it myself, so only you will know, Michael.

You seem to have a penchant for the Scottish courses, but there are many equal if not better down here in England.

If you want to see quality inland golf then The home counties of Surrey and Berkshire will take some beating. Perhaps you ought to treat yourself to a round at St. Georges Hill, West Hill, Worplesdon, Woking, Swinley Forest, The Berkshire, New Zealand, Camberley Heath. All of these are IMO better than Wentworth.

For the links, we have the famous stretch on the Kent Coast, Princes, Royal St.Georges and Royal Cinque Ports. Treat yourself to a round at Rye in Sussex, or spend a nice week-end down in Devon and play Westward Ho (Royal North Devon G.C.) and Saunton (One of the hardest courses in this country.

Perhaps a trip to the Norfolk Coast would suit you, with Brancaster, and Hunstanton, awesome courses.

I have played all of these and can vouch for them all.

I can guarantee that if you play any of the courses I have mentioned that you will be on the course no longer than three hours, they just do not tolerate the modern day antics of some of our new modern golfers. In fact at Hunstanton they only permit two balls.

If you only want to play target golf then obviously the USGA spec courses are for you, myself I prefer courses where one has to use imagination and flair to overcome the difficulties that they present.

A man after my own heart, thank you, Wayne. They have built hundreds of new courses in the last thirty years and they were built because of the surge of interest in the game. The corporate sector latched on and this is when we started tp get large groups of players, who, quite honestly should never have been allowed on the course, because they had not bothered to learn the game.

These courses were built to USGA specs. because they are quick to build, whereas the old style course took many years to develop. 

Everyone now thinks that golf courses must have large lakes to make them more scenic.

You would be surprised to learn that their are many old style clubs that have been around for over a century that still provide cheap golf for their members. One of amy favourites is Crowborough Beacon in Sussex, but membership there will only cost you about £550 per annum. Without a history in the game it would be impossible to get in though.

Did you ever get the chance to play Orsett G.C. when you lived in Grays, another great course, plenty of gorse and a very links type layout, built on on old ash tip apparently so dry all year round.

JP, not surprised at all as the new rich modern golfer has no idea how to get round a course in three hours.

I played in the "Berkshire Trophy"  a scratch tournament of 72 holes a few times and that was 36 holes on the Saturday and 36 holes on the Sunday with a field of about 72. It would be impossible today. 

Wayne, whenever I do a long post I always copy to the clipboard just in case it gets lost in posting. Saves pulling your hair out.

Watching those guys play Gleneagles again today makes me feel incredibly humble.  As I noted, I played this course right after the tournament 5 years ago. 

What I forgot to mention was how much fun it was to play a course right after they hold a championship.  The fairways, greens and everything were still in tournament conditions.  Never in my life I have been on a green cut to tournament conditions and in such great shape. 

They are all complaining about the greens, Michael.

Not sure what the exact problem is with the greens, but it's unfortunate indeed. When I played this course after the Championship 5 years ago, the greens and entire course was perfect. Perfect for me because no one hit their shots as short as I do, so my lies were always perfect. Except for those in the stuff off the fairways. Never could find my ball in that stuff.

But I'd still bet that those "bad" greens are still better than anything us normal folk play on every weekend. 

I think that the problem, especially on the first day was that due to the heavy rain, the greens had become sodden and with the heavy traffic of a competition footprints were being left on the greens, added with the spike marks made short putting very difficult, in fact I believe Westwood three putted from two feet. I would not be blaming the greens for that.

Did any of you see that awesome trophy the Havret recieved with the Johnny Walker scotch inside the glass ball at the top?  I wonder how he gets that one thorugh airport security!