What do you want in a putter - Project 231

A few of you already know of this, I chatted to a few people about it at the Southern Cup but would like to throw it open for a bit of market research.

Briefly, I'm looking into building a putter, various aspects of which are currently secret and in the hands of a patent lawyer, but is now called (mysteriously) Project 231.

So what influences you in your putter?  I'm not particularly interested in the marketing hype of the brand, it's genuinely what you like about the club you've got, had or intend to get.  Any feedback is welcome about your preferences, post it or PM me.  In particular, I'm interested in weights, club face loft and hardness, putter or mallet, overcentre or heel and whether you naturally toe up or toe down when putting - and obviously price.

I'll see what interest I get and may have to do a more detailed questionaire.  If it all goes to plan (and my plans don't always work) I'll be needing some testers too!  

Balance is key for me.  It shouldn't feel like you're having to battle a wobble to keep it square.  I also agree with Matt and Anthony.  You can instantly tell as soon as you pick a putter up whether you stand a chance of getting on with it. 

As Harry Potter found out in the first film; "The wizard doesn't choose the wand, the wand chooses the wizard". 

For Me the balance and weight has to be right, i have played with both blade style and mallets (im currently using a mallet).

As with christopher Ive always gone for heaver types of putter as i like to have a solid feel on connection and also i think that it helps me with the swingpath. Hence why im currently using the TM Mezza Rossa which is well balanced but is quite weighty.

Also the grip has to be right. I was using a putter and was happy with it, but the grip was a bit manky, so i changed the grip for a new one although differnt model (went from a pistol tp a wrap style) and it changed my putting score for the worse, i then changed back to the pistol style and my putting improved. Of course this could all be in my head, as many things are in golf, but now i always use a pistol grip style.

As for the face, ive tried all types and feel that inserts do offer somthing, if only a softer feel or nicer sound. I loved the TM Nubbins for this fact. But as to wether it improved my putting average its hard to tell.

Intrested on what your up to thou, so keep us upto date. we could have the new scotty cameron amoung us :o)

It should not look like a praying mantis or a clingon warbird from start trek. Absolutely zero bling required so no pink, blue or yellow inserts. No 2 ball, three ball, chevron or whatever allignmnet lines. No fancy black, blue or tortoise shell patterns finishes to the head. Just simple clean elegant and functional IMO.

Col (42 putts last round) Astbury

Dont listen to me

Pink, Colin?  I'm an engineer and therefore very conservative.  Keep it coming guys, anyone got any thoughts on the loft?

did i hit a nerve there christopher? :o)

To be honest ive never realy given much thought to the loft of my putter. Its just another thing to worry me or blame when things are going wrong.

Of course im sure that lofts are very important but for the higher level handicapper (like me) i doubt it would even come into the thought process of buying a club. 

It sounds like you're going to have to bring out a whole range then Tim! Personally I like the blade style, and like to feel the ball coming of the clubface, so nothing too soft! I like a decent weight to the putter, but the main thing is to get hold of it and see how it feels. I am intrigued by this development, so I am definately up for any testing that needs to be done! Good luck with it all.

Personally I'm not convinced by the loft arguments, especially after talking to Phil Gazeley (the two thumb putter man) at the Southern Cup.  I know that when I putt I sometimes strike the ball with a negative loft, especially if I'm on the fringe of the green, to pinch the ball off the turf (thanks to the Jack Nicklaus cartoon golf tips in the Daily Express c. 1975).  I know that the obvious argument is that a loft will lift the ball off the turf to promote a true roll, but if the ball is in the air (however low) it isn't under control.  The loft will also be greatly effected by where on the head the CoG is.  However, just to cater for all preferences the prototype project 231 has adjustable loft (positive and negative up to 4° and a CofG 18.5mm from the base (18.5mm + 3mm ground clearance - to coincide with the Cof G of the ball).  This has now been added to the other adjustables, which include lie and shaft angle, head weight and offset.  As an added bonus I've just realised that most of the possible configurations can be used for right or left handers....

I've got to keep this thread at the top somehow! 

But will it stop me missing from 2 feet???????

I want my putte,r a scotty cameron with the c-grooves from the "yes!" range

Can you do this for me Tim?

No problem Colin.  I'll have to have a word with my CNC man and it would depend how much you were prepared to pay.  Be difficult to get the black finish and you'd be risking your putter, but it's perfectly feasible.

I like a haevy putter, with a light feel.

Add it to the list on your fantasy putter, ill buy one when its launched.

Also Tim, when you hang the club lighty from the top of the grip, the balance should hold the clubface square.  This will help promote a true swing and stop twisting. 

Danny - what do you want?  A sledgehammer?

Colin - the 'C' groove feature is probably copyrighted, but Project 231 will have an option of an elliptically grooved face in at least two of the configurations.

Chris - if you mean the bottom of the putter square to the ground then that's pretty impracticle, if you mean the face square to the target then it already has.  YThe weight distribution and shaft attachment also means it is resistant to twist anyway.

Keep them coming

I can only do that from a monitor in the buggy, David, not from the clubhouse.

I really like the perpendicular sight line on my existing putter and find for me this helps with line more than the extended inline versions on most existing putters.

Tim,

After playing a few times in the wind just lately I could have done with some extra weights in my putter to stop it blowing around on my backswing.

Also how about an extendable shaft so you can experiment from belly putter to normal putter??

John.

currently using the odyssey white hot with insert.

for me, the important thing is the feel. the club should feel like an extension of my arms.  i don't want to work too hard on feeling comfortable.

happy to test drive.

Colin - at the moment the sight lines depend on the configuration of the putter, I've initially gone with that which I've used on my putter - a central sight line and a couple of guides for the ball width.  It tends to reduce the parallax error when lineing up the club face.

John F. - weight is variable for the blade configuration, currently up to an extra 30 grams (10%) if I can get hold of some tungsten.  I wanted to use depleted Uranium but that's a bit tricky to get hold of now!  Shaft length isn't adjustable, but they are interchangeable.

Depleted Uranium's alright, I've got a lump in my garage but very few people want to machine it because it's best to use Meths as a lubricant and buggers the machinery up because it's so abrasive.  It's only dangerous if you drop it on your foot.

Tim, I did mean the face as opposed to the base.  Looks like you already have it covered.  Anything that will encourage strikes with the centre of the face will also help. 

Thought so Chris.  Was toying with the idea of having a striking face that's actually smaller than the ball - may try that later.

David Marshall



Handicap : 13

Location :

Posts : Reply : Wed 12th Mar 2008 23:40
Are you going to call it The Nuclear, Tim.  Or is it designed to make your hair fall out if you miss the putt?

has Wayne bee testing it out?

How's this project comming along Tim?

I have been considering asking a Tool maker friend of mine to mill a putter so ive been intrested in the above input.  

d 

Danny - may be interested if you have atame toolmaker to try some bits and pieces out.  Do you know what equipment he has available, it would be easier for me if he has access to CAM stuff as the design is 3D modelled and can be directly transfered as IGES or STEP files (he'll know what I mean if you don't!).

As for an update not much to report as yet, although I'm waiting on a copy of a previously filed patent application that may throw a bit of a spanner in the works for some aspects of my design (someone may have had a go with something similar in '98).  Have just upgraded my 3D CAD to a newer version and it's a bit different so am having to get used to it - and work is also getting in the way.  However, am contemplating a slightly different approach to the putter body which will allow a fully customisable blade.

And Philip, you are so right about practice.  It's true that if you can't putt, a Project 231, Scotty Cameron or whatever will not help.  However, the object of the excercise is to allow anyone to build a putter to suit their own style - an hour with it on a practice green and you should be able to try 10 different configurations to see which feels most comfortable.

Interesting, Kevin, my first job after leaving school was with a firm of Patent Agents, Carpmaels and Ransford, Chancery Lane. Old established company and probably still going strong. I was quickly reminded of the correct pronunciation of the word Patent.

I expected them to still be going as they were the firm in those days for anything to do with Patents and Trademarks. I spent many an hour doing searches in the Patent Office itself, which was nearby. It may have move since then though as I am talking about circa 1953/4.

So it looks as though Wales has nicked not only the Royal Mint but also The Patent Office. No wonder you are all rolling in money down there, Kevin.

Tim, this become project 231.BETA yet ? ready for testers