golf physics question

If you hit what would have been a dead straight shot with no side-spin if the hit had come out of the centre of the club but hit the toe of the club instead, so that the face of the club opens slightly, what direction side-spin gets put on the ball?

The reason I ask this is that my opinion differs from that of my coach. He is a very experienced and highly qualified golf profession. I'm a total beginner.

I still think I'm right

If the club was delivered neutrally with an open club face and struck towards the toe then my understanding of physics would mean that you would hit a weak fade. Saying that, I'm probably wrong.

Some useful information here:

http://www.golfshake.com/forums/view/8913/Driver_club_speed.html

in my opinion it would be a clockwise rotation (right handed) therefore a fade or more accurate a slice

Steve, why would the club face necessarilly be open if you hit it off the toe? Generally when I toe it I get a bit of draw and I have a v whippy driver shaft. That said, if the club face is open at impact then I can't see any type of spin being imparted other than clockwise. an out to in swing will result in the level of fade/slice. I'd be interested to know how an open face can impart clockwise spin? (sorry this should say anti clockwise spin...edited 12/2/14) I would have thought a push would have been the best you could get.

What I mean is that if the clubface is square to target immediately before impact, when the toe of the club meets the mass of the ball it gets slowed down slightly more than the heel, which opens the face slightly. (This is not the matter in dispute: we both agree this is what happens.)

The question is what direction is the sidespin that results? You mention that you think it would be clockwise, but also that you get a draw. Assuming you're right-handed, clockwise spin would mean a fade.

Forgetting the physics, I know that if you hit a driver out of the toe it tends to go from right to left whereas a drive hit out of the heel is flighted from left to right.

I think you can get any shape of shot from any contact point on the face. It the club path that matters. In to out path = fade. Out to in = draw. this can be done wherever the ball meets the club face. Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Dave, the question states that the club path is along the target line through impact.

I now have a definitive answer. I was wrong, and my coach was right. It took another coach properly to explain why I was wrong but I was definitely wrong.

I won't spoil the fun by giving it away just yet.

im sure this exact thing is called 'Gear effect' when the mass of the ball and mass of the clubhead meet at the point of impact but travel in different directions.

Google it or you tube it, theres loads on it. its a bit like D-plane but for down by the ball

Alun, you're right, it is indeed gear effect. Richard, you are also spot on; and you're not forgetting the physics, you're observing it, accurately as it turns out.

The answer is the the ball spins anti-clockwise, contrary to what seems intuitively obvious (to me anyway). The reason for this is the same reason that two gears placed next to each other turn in opposite directions: as the club face rotates clockwise (opens) it turns the ball the other way.

Er, not necessarily... The answer is it can go either or not at all I'm afraid. It generally depends on a number of factors which your pro may be basing on experience rather than physics. As an example, take a ball that is struck absolutely cleanly, in other words one where the C of G of the club and ball are perfectly aligned on impact. At that point the ball compresses and the face of the club dishes and the ball theoretically will go straight. However, in practice this will never happen due to variations in the club face thickness and the purity of the ball compression and indeed the dimple position on the ball. What the 'gear' effect tries to show is that the further from the dish created by the impact the ball is the greater the variation in angle from the C of G's of the two parts is and the ball would indeed rotate anti-clockwise (draw). However, if the ball is struck coming out to in the ball would be unaffected by the dishing of the club face and rotate clockwise (slice). Hit the ball out to in within the dish part of the face and the chances are it would go dead straight. Pedantic I know - but physically accurate...

the club was delivered neutrally with an open club face ????? Hardly neutral then is it? Look at it from an engineering view point. Square means 90 degrees to something else, if you have hit it out of the toe it's off centre and if it's square to the ball at impact it should go straight. If you hit it off the toe and the club face is open you have a slice and if you hit it off the toe and the club face is shut or closed you will have a hook or snap hook.