Memberships costs - a possible idea for clubs to consider?

I'm probably not the first one to have had this thought about how clubs could encourage new & ongoing memberships but the recent discussion on joining fees got me thinking about another possible way forward for clubs....

Why don't clubs offer a 2-day (i.e. weekend) membership, to be costed around or slightly higher than the same figure as the 5-day midweek membership? This way they could match up the number of weekday & weekend memberships within their club to improve the overall efficiency of use of their playing space - and, encourage the prospect of weekend only golfers being able to afford an ongoing commitment to one club.

As someone mentioned on the other thread, the current pricing policy for 7 day memberships is excruciatingly expensive for many weekend-only golfers given that one effectively has to pay around 25 - 35% more than 5 day members to play only 2 days of the week. At my most local course - which still expects �1000 joining fee - the annual membership (�1195) works out at around �27.50 per round for 44 rounds of golf - assuming 4 weeks of holiday and 4 weekends when the course might be closed due to weather. When one can pick from an array of interesting courses for a similar or lesser cost using the various tee-time booking sites - without the upfront payments expected by clubs, is it any wonder that so few of us choose to commit to one club in this day and age?

Any thoughts on this - and does anyone know of any clubs that already adopt a similar policy?

Peter W.

I don't, but my immediate thought is (from the course's point of view) why bother? Round our way at least it's difficult to get a tee time anywhere over the weekend unless you book at least by Thursday; if they're full with paying guests and societies, why offer a membership option to fill the times? At public courses memberships pay for the course, guests make the profits.

Of course your suggestion would be excellent for golfers, but that's not really a consideration for most clubs!

Subs to a Private Members Club is not just for Green-Fees and shouldn't be thought of by the number of rounds played.

With the clubhouse facilities being included within a membership fee, how would you deal with Weekend Members during the week?

The way it works at present, where a 5 day member can only play Mon to Fri but gets full use of the clubhouse at weekends too, so allowing Full Members access to the course at weekends.

Clubs lose money with low course usage during the week and Members not using the clubhouse facilities. That is the real area to look at for most Clubs.

A nation of whingers expecting everything for nothing. Do away with your i pads and i phones and perhaps you would all be able to afford to play this wonderful game. Golf is cheap when compared to anything else in the leisure industry.

Thanks for responses so far - Picking up David's point, I'd foresee clubs charging weekend members a "members' sign in rate" during the week - and vice versa for weekday members playing at the weekends.

I appreciate that you're getting far more with a membership than just a green fee package - but for golfers with busy domestic/family & work lives and 5 hour rounds becoming the norm at weekends in some areas, clubs surely have to become a little more creative about categories of membership in this day & age if they're to tempt the increasingly large number of nomadic society golfers like myself away from teeofftimes et al and to commit & invest in a proper membership?

It is the advent of the nomadic golfer that is a primary cause of some clubs having difficulties. There are way too many courses now for the number of players who take this game seriously.

There are two distinct sections now, those who are prepared to join a proper well established club and those who just want a knock around when it suits them. Both sectors are well catered for at present.

Until those in the nomadic section decide to play the game as it was intended then the game overall will only deteriorate even further than it has these past thirty/Forty years.

Those who are new top the game in the last twenty years will not understand a word I am saying and I feel rather sorry for them.

A simple solution is that a Club can be either a Members Club or a Pay & Play type.

A Membership fee of about �100 - �200 p.a. for the clubhouse, hcp and Comps. Then pay each time you play the course and you can pay block fees for 12months, or 6 months. Wait a minute! Isn't that what a Pay & Play does now?

Many people pay about �1000p.a. and don't get real value for money if you break it up into cost per round. What they get is the availability of a game at anytime without any further cost. You can't expect a Private Members Club to deal with you the same way at the weekend as a Pay & Play.

Choose what you want from a Club and join one that fits your needs, don't join a Club then expect it to change to accommodate you.

Yes, Garry, I am quite the journeyman, but I have also always been a member of a golf club.

I am not the one doing the whinging Garry, I started on the public course and aspired to becoming a member of a private club, those were the only two choices available at the time.

The introduction of the new corporate course which are now owned by hotels, because they could not pay their way has made the situation worse.

Today, you are spoiled for choice and it is this choice which has completely upset the way this game has always been played. When you add in the whims and fancies of the Pro tour one can see that the decline has come from the top. Longer courses to cope with the length of tee shots these days, the pro game reduced to those who can putt better than the average, no skill actually required, and most of you think we have progressed.

A nation of whingers expecting everything for nothing. Do away with your i pads and i phones and perhaps you would all be able to afford to play this wonderful game. Golf is cheap when compared to anything else in the leisure industry.

Not entirely sure who this is aimed at or what it's meant to mean John...and I spend far, far more on golf than I do on my other hobbies, including rugby and squash club memberships, and not a whole lot less than I spend over and above a 'normal' car price/running costs to own an enthusiast car. It's not a cheap sport...worth every penny I spend on it, but still not cheap.

There seems to be a myth amongst 'nomadic' golfers that when you join a private members club you then play just the same course. As someone else mentioned, being a member of a club is not just about the course, there are lots of other benefits too. As a member I get the opportunity to play as many other clubs Open Days as I want to at vastly reduced cost. I also play in a team so play around 10 other courses a year for no cost at all. We have reciprocal clubs I can also play for free. At the club itself I have a locker and a spot in the trolley store so I don't have to lug stuff back and forth. The club pro helps me with equipment and if anything needs changing or fixing he does it for free. In the club house there are towels and toiletries if I want to clean up after a round. There are hairdryers/straighteners etc if I want to make a bit more effort. In the bar/lounge the food and drinks are priced reasonable anyway but as a member I get a discount on top. The staff know my favourite drink, how I like my bacon cooked and look after me in plenty of ways. There is also a driving range, chipping area and putting green. Balls are free so I can practice as much as I like. I practice for a couple of hours each Saturday and play each Sunday in the winter. In the summer I do the same but also play on Tuesday morning and play a few holes 2 or 3 evenings a week. I have joined gyms, played hockey and swam but membership of a golf club is easiest the best value for money.

Hello John - Perhaps without intending to, your comments on the bipartisan divide in golf - The "proper" members and the "knock-about" golfers - perfectly illustrate the problems in perception & attitude that have always plagued golf and which was part of the reason I posted originally.

There is actually a very large 3rd constituency of very serious players, which I'd count myself as a member, who play this great game as often as we can - You'll notice that I have logged around 60 rounds in the last year on Golfshake - who bring a great deal of money into a great deal of individual private club coffers, who DO spend money in clubhouses after a game in spite of being treated like 2nd class citizens at far too many "private" clubs. (Visitors toilets, visitors car park, inflated bar prices, etc). As an aside, I can't believe, by the way, that visitors from other private clubs would put up with being treated in this way - picking up your point, Judy, about the facilities & playing opportunities offered by private clubs at little or no cost to members of other "private" clubs).

I'm just making a plea that at least some private clubs out there stop for a moment to consider that it might be in their longer term best interests to make it possible and more likely that a higher proportion of players can justify and commit to the costs of a membership arrangement. There is huge current untapped membership potential that exists out here amongst my "nomadic" fraternity. If there are any club officials from forward thinking clubs in South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire that understand my point and have any concrete proposals for enticing the likes of me into membership, in spite of my nomadic credentials, I - and I suspect many others that I play with - would be really pleased to hear from you.

I can't see anyone offering that Peter surely if they offered a slightly reduced 'weekend only' membership to the normal 'full' membership they would run the risk of losing revenue due to some existing members switching.

Given the the reverse probably does exist for 'mid week' membership you can see why some clubs have been offering the 5 day or even 6 day memberships but I can't really see any club offering a 2 day membership.

There nearest you may get is some of the points based membership schemes that have been gaining traction over the last 18 months.

The reason nomadic golfers cannot enter Open Days is because they will not have a Congu handicap. Most of these days have substantial prizes. I am sure you will appreciate that non-congu handicaps are self policed and it would not be difficult for players to have artificially high handicaps and walk away with all the prizes. I wouldn't enter a comp if it allowed entries without a congu handicap as I wouldn't think I had a fair chance. As for weekend only memberships. If there was a golf club who could not fill their tee times at a weekend then I would say go for it. I seriously doubt such a club exists. I also don't see a problem with having a member benefiting from extras that visitors don't get. It sounds to me like you want all the benefits of a membership without putting in the investment.

Not so, Judy - I would love to become a member of a club - but without having to sell my soul in the process. Any club that can't lower itself to treat visitors with the same respect that it demands for its own "house rules" is really not the kind of place I'm looking to invest in.

I've no objection to those sorts of clubs continuing to do all they can to exclude the likes of me. I'm very interested in finding out if there are any "out of the ordinary" clubs out there who are "golf & player focussed" and are prepared to think and act a little more creatively & inclusively. It may well be a vain hope, in which case I'll continue to survive on the pickings produced by society membership, associate memberships of some of my local courses and the services of my good friends at Open Fairways/Teeofftimes, etc.

I am sorry, Peter, what Judy said is correct, you are a nomad player do not possess a CONGU handicap yet expect everyone else to jump through hoops for your benefit.

In my eye, not being a member of a recognised club, having paid your dues to not only the club, but the county associations who help to organise and run the various competitions that are open to club members places you in the category of someone who just plays at golf and has no intention of joining and helping to prosper a recognised club. You do not deserve any support whatsoever.

I often wondered this, why clubs dont do weekend only but it is quite obvious, What would be a better idea i think would be if several courses got together and you could get a sort of "blanket" membership where you could pay your fee, and each club involved gets a cut, and the player could play any of the courses on the list on the weekends.

Im sure some of the old heads here are going to think this is a ridiculous idea but as a paying member id happily sign up to this. Moreover i think if a club really does think it is that much better than the rest, how better to prove it. That way, where the Facilities/staff/course/etc is better than the competition, the members will take care of themselves.

Each course could take it in turns to hold a medal once a month or so, giving the members a sense of belonging, cards can be submitted at the respective course and the course could log them on a central system.

I think this sort of system could really work for struggling clubs, and especially players such as myself and peter perhaps. Im also convinced that the "soul selling" clubs peter mentions would have no interest in this sort of system, and thats fine. Just an idea, i do however think that the membership thing is evolving and the old school method of looking at it is dying out. My club is talking about breaking up a par 5 because the old boys cant handle the long walks, 12 hole tournaments because the old guys start to keel over after any more, and i find some, (note some, not all) of the old boys wont offer me a game because they get embarrassed with the odd shank or poor putt. When these clubs were in their element, mid 1900s - 1990ish the format used was the right one and i feel people befitted greatly, time has move on however and its time for clubs to look to satisfy new blood to support the books. I know its not exactly the same but its very similar, look at how the pub industry has evolved, gastro food and flat screen tellys now replace fag machines and dart boards. Will the older generation moan? probably. Will the landlord care? no chance. and why? because theres a lot more money in keeping the 20 yr olds happy for many years instead of the old guys happy for a few. I dont inted to offend anyone but ive raised this issue before and got a smiliar response, and dont be put down peter, we're all on the railroad of this wonderful game, just some of us are intercitty 225's and some are steam engines

For all those who are not a member of a Club. Saturday or Sunday (sometimes both) is competition day and a decent Club will have over 40 W\E Comps each year and will attract 50 to 100 entries to each. Add Winter Leagues and Summer Knock-Outs you have a full calander of competitive golf.

Something that has not been said yet, but I will dare to tread there. The 'standing' of being a Member of a recognised Golf Club can be of great benefit in life. Judy by just mentioning she is a Member at Moortown can give someone a better impression, rather than her just saying that she plays Golf.

Thanks, John, David, Judy, Darren for your comments - and to Alun for his encouragement.

I did smile when I read your last comment, David. No offence meant to Judy or any other member at Moortown or elsewhere but it's exactly that sort of anachronism that I'm not prepared to pay good money to buy into and therefore perpetuate. I suppose its like telling everyone you meet that you own a BMW - One part of the population may well be impressed by the revelation but you can be sure many others will be thinking something rather different!

Happy & fulfilling golfing to everyone - wherever and however you pay for it.

Good point Dave but by saying that surely the exact opposite could be taken that someone from a not so great club could be frowned upon? not to mention all the people who sign up to clubs purely based on the fact that their father/brother/mother/etc is a member there? im sure prejudiced isnt where you were going with this but i think its where it may lead. I personally have never even heard of moortown, but i gather its a good un?

Alun,

For those who don't follow Golf History, Moortown hosted the first ever Ryder Cup on British soil in 1929.

For your area replace 'Moortown' with 'Royal Porthcawl', but taking what car you drive in the same vain, how often do you hear "What type of car?" being asked of "I can drive" as against "I play Golf" being followed by "Where?".

oh wow, i didnt know, golf history really isnt something that interests me but very valid points. I hadnt even heard of the royal portcawl until you just mentioned it and looking at the green fees i know why :p Surely on the same basis it can work in the opposite way? like the car thing, i mean no offence to Porsche drivers but they do have a rep, same could be said for evos or scoobys though i suppose. Especially if youve had poor treatment from said "upper class" clubs. im a member and recommend that people do find a club for the convenience of rocking up and practicing a few putts or chips. But in 5 weeks membership i have played at 3 different courses, i do however feel tied but at the same time a sense of belonging

Alun, Royal Porthcawl is the famous one along that stretch but on the same dunes is another course by the name of Pyle & Kenfig, which, in my opinion is a far tougher test, yet affordable. Treat yourself to a real golf course.

will do John, thanks for the recommendation

I joined Moortown because it is the course my husband chose. He is a great golfer and needed a course to challenge him. I knew nothing about different types of golf courses so can't say I joined for any perceived snob value. In fact we went round quite a few different clubs around here and Moortown was by far the friendliest and had the nicest atmosphere. I have made some brilliant friends there and no-one looks down on me because I don't earn as much as others. Everyone just gets on with golf and the banter.

As mentioned by David. On a Saturday our course is full almost all day. From 7am until about 2pm there is a men's competition most weekends and all tee times are booked well in advance. The later tee times will be taken up with matchplay competitions. There are sometimes a few tee times available and these are sometimes released to visitors. On a Sunday there is a Ladies competition in the morning and often team competitions in the afternoon. There are usually a few extra tee times available and we often see a few visitors on a Sunday.

There is no reason at all for a club with full tee times at the weekend to offer weekend membership. There is no room on the course. It isn't for any snob value or anything like that - the fact is there is no room. When room does become available then new members will join. There is a waiting list for the men but not for the ladies.

The vast majority of clubs have plenty of tee times during the week, not weekends. It makes no sense to offer a discount membership for those who can only play at weekends as most people would switch to that deal and clubs would have less money not more. The only way that would work financially would be to sell the 2 day membership to unlimited numbers of people and then everyone would moan as they couldn't get a tee time as they were oversubscribed!

I don't understand why you don't just find a club and join it. You want to be a member, you want to play weekends - why not join a club - what is stopping you?

i think we had this last year and i see lots of clubs offering memberships that they hope to attract people to them i have joined a club close to me i paid a total of �60 that gives me a handicap which i paid extra for use the club when ever i like but pay a reduced green fee which is good for me as i dont play every week and some times maybe once a month plus they also do comps for my membership type you speak to anyone within a golf club they will tell you thay have all had a bad year or so

i think peters point was more to do with the fact that most players can only play weekends but clubs offer 5 day or 7 day which, as in my case, you are paying for fees for 7 days and are only ever able to use 2. so the Value provided by a 7 day membership is quite poor in relation to what a weekend only membership would provide. Again though i think this is where the modular memberships come in where you pay for so many units and each round uses '4' amount of units on a weekday or say '6' on a weekend, this is quite popular at my club and i think it would provide the value peter is after. Unit membership also entitles you to all competitions and full member benifits as a side note

Anyone reading this thread would think that players of my age never went to work and that 7 day membership meant we played everyday. As I have stated, I have always been a member of a club and in the seventies when I worked driving to the Middle East I played very little golf, but always maintained my membership.

One cannot call themselves a footballer just because they kick a ball about on the local recreation ground. Same with golf.

thats a bit harsh john not everyone has the money to join a club on the full price and also in what way do you not call yourself a golfer if you play at the local muni? golf has to change to keep the clubs going and alot have done this with the offers they have and that is a fact

I agree with Karl on that one. The problem isn't the fact that people want to be a member its a fact that they cannot afford to be a member. Has the cost of living ever been so high? Petrol, mortgages, bills etc? And 9/10 people I would think consider golf a luxury. And I don't mean shall I pay my gym membership or my club fees? I mean, shall I pay the mortgage/replace the boiler/get the car through an mot. It would be interesting to know how much your fees have gone up since the mid 70s to today and compare it with the rate of inflation/average earnings/cost of living. I genuinely would like to know that. If people can give me some numbers ill happily put something together. Maybe do a survey. Golf is a hobby l, an expensive luxury and it would go if money dictated but I'd sooner be riding a push bike to work before I gave up my beloved sticks

I think that example Karl gave is a great idea. So people are asking that clubs should change the way they offer membership to get more members. I think Karl has shown that clubs are doing that - there are innovative packages available if you don't want to pay the full subscription/joining fee.

A club has to maintain it's course and buildings for 7 days a week - not just the 2 days a week most people can play so there will always be a need to have full membership - but if a club can find a way to be innovative and wants to then that is great.

So there is something for everyone. So what is the problem? Where does Pete live? Anywhere near Karl - perhaps he can join the same club.

Despite working full time I would not change to a weekend membership given the opportunity. I love the fact I can pop down after work or in my lunchtime or using flexi-time and use the course and facilities when I want to.

Golf is different for everyone - I am a bit more down the John route - I love playing but also love being a member and all that entails - it is so much more than just playing. Not everyone is the same though.

Peter what have you started here ..... LOL i also have the dilemma, of joining a club and be tide to it for the money value or be a freelance golfer ,and pay where i play in my busy life

i do have one idea what about a joint membership of a 7day where one takes the weekdays and the other the weekend and split the cost

I've only been a member for a couple of years so can't comment on price increases but when it comes to value for money it works for me. I do appreciate though that I am obsessed, child free and have no life other than work and golf!

With the rate I use the place I think it costs me about �6.50 a round.

Compare that to my gym membership when it probably cost me about �50 a time as I was rubbish at going!

Hi Judy To change the thread slightly, you are lucky enough ( even though it's not luck it's a choice you have made ) to be a member at a fantastic course. What about playing your weekly comp on a lesser course week in week out ? I honestly struggle to think of a course within 1/2 hour that I would want to play every week. Although I am no longer a club member due to the usual work, young children, finance commitments etc I completely understand the benefits associated with membership. For me at present its primarily a case of not having a course that I enjoy enough to play constantly matched with family commitments and the subs that local courses demand. Mind you I am fairly sure that I would find the time and money if the course was good enough. For me, when you can only play 12 - 15 rounds a year, the benefits of membership are outweighed by the cost. As long as you can put up with "where do you play" being more important than "what do play off" as a green fee player then you are ok !

What an absorbing thread. I have enjoyed the diverse views and probably sit somewhere in the middle. I have been a club member for years now, but at several different clubs, which could be described as at the cheaper end. This mainly due to the fact that I find these suit my pocket (I do tend to be mean) and the people I meet and play with are of a similar mind and humour to myself. As with John and Judy, I enjoy the sense of belonging (as I did for many years in the R.N.), but find I do not need to be surrounded by oppulence to enjoy myself. My current club, RAF Waddington G.C. gives me everything I need for the paltry sum of �208 per year. As I play at least twice a week this is ridiculously cheap and probably beats all nearby pay and play establishments. Our course is never over busy either as it is not open to the public. I do get out to play other courses, but attach these games to midweek hotel breaks. Sorry if I sound a bit self satisfied, but the fact is I believe I have the best deal going. Here's to the club members and nomads all. Golf needs both!

I joined a golf clubs years ago for a few reasons;

• Tired of never being able to get an early tee time at weekends.
• Annoyed at the lack of etiqutte displayed at muni courses.
• Overall condition of the courses

Having been a member at a private club for nearly 10 years I can honestly say I would never go back. The benefits are;

• I can turn up whenever I want & play.
• An official CONGU handicap
• Playing medal golf off the back tees (nothing compares to this)
• A nice clubhouse to sit with friends before & after a round
• Somewhere to practice (without having to pay extra)

I think where the private clubs are losing their revenue is attracting golfers into the clubhouse afterwards. Many a time I see people finish a round of golf, throw their stuff in the boot & drive off. My club has tried lots of new offers but you can't change the mentality of some people.

It used to be the case years ago that not all members played golf whereas nowadays all members are active players. You can tell this by the amount of people that are out on the course on weekends.

As David has said, find a club that meets your needs & not one that you think you change to suit you.

JF

at the end of the day you have to sit back look at how many times a week you may play and see what clubs are offering if you play 3 times a week you should become a full member if like me you cant play every weekend then look for offers where you can still play when you like but with members benifits on top and maybe meet people who are in the same boat as you are but the end of the day its all about having fun

Fantastic thread this, great contrasts of opinions. Personally, I feel that being a member has helped my game and social circle. Also, call it naive, but every time I play, it's not always the same course. Differing pin locations, conditions, and course condition all make it a variation of the scorecard, and therein lies the challenge for me, finding consistency. I do agree with some previous points, around time in the clubhouse. I would go to more evenings at my club, and have a few after each round, but the food is below par, and drinks are still nearly �3 a pint with member discount. It's easier for me and my mates to shower up and go to the local. Whereas if food and drink was 25% cheaper, I'd be more inclined to go to the club socially.

Great thread ,when i first joined a club i joined as a dormie member you got a handicap 33% discount on green fees then after a few years it was scraped and you had to be either a five day or seven day member so after many great years i did not renew,as icould not juctife the cost i would have stayed if the opption to be able to pay a realistic membership fee and pay reduced green fees ,so i am now a nomadic golfer, and looking forward to the G tour.

One of the reasons I stopped playing in the GTour. Non congu handicaps.

Bearing in mind that the average age in golf clubs is currently just under 60 yrs of age, then its not rocket science to realise that most members are of working age. If you offered those members the opportunity to pay less than half their current fees you'd probably find most of them would take up that offer, especially as for 5 months of the year they only play weekends.

So now you have a club income dropping from, say, �500,000 to �300,000. The club still has to find �500,000. Everyone's subs would have to rise, and those that were just weekend members, i.e. the premium time, would and should take the biggest hit. Oh look, everyone's still paying the same....

After 15yrs of balancing the books it still amazes (dismays) me how often I hear this naive, short sighted argument. If you reduce the revenue from one section, you have to put it up in another. And if they don't like that they leave and then you have to put the subs back up in the 1st section...

Just a quick insight into club costs; one of the biggest bills at a golf club is for diesel to run the machinery. In the last 2 yrs agricultural diesel has gone up something like 17%... your household inflation may have gone up 7% in that time.

Great debate for all sides. Think I should throw in my twopenneth

I was a nomad for several years with the mindset that I wouldn't want to play the same course week in, week out as I would get bored. But then I found a course I found myself wanting to go back to as I always enjoyed it so I got a membership for the last 4 months of the year (no joining fee) to give it a try. I found I enjoyed playing there regularly, didn't get bored and signed up again for the next 12 months. I hardly used the clubhouse (it was a corporate venue) and felt that was something I was missing

As my membership expired I moved house and needed to find a new club. I never considered going back to being a nomad, just finding the right club. When I found my current club I was very lucky; two great and very different courses (plus another we get for �10 per round just up the road), a nice clubhouse with good food and beer at reasonable prices and friendly people. Even though I knew no-one I never felt out of place in the clubhouse and I would guess at least 50% of people go into the clubhouse after their round. I paid a joining fee equal to one year's membership (�900) and have paid it over 3 years. Some other clubs in the area have dropped joining fees but we still have the largest membership in the area. I still play other courses and I reckon I play about 10 other courses per year, and I've already done four others this year

One place I think we miss out on revenue is with the casual golfer. Our green fees can be prohibitive (�47 midweek / �57 weekend per round) if you aren't playing with a member and this can put some people off. We are often one of the only courses in playable condition in the winter and with more accessible costs we could really see some visitor traffic.

I think we should offer an "Associate" membership with a reduced membership fee and a green fee payable. For example, if we charged �200 for a year and half-priced green fees someone would have to play 8 times in the year to be better off. From the club's point of view, sell 10 of these and �2,000 is guaranteed with at least another �2,000 in green fees likely. For fair weather summer only golfers, those who want to to make use of our good drainage in the winter or simply those who can only get out once or twice a month this would be ideal and would bring much needed revenue into the club that would otherwise go elsewhere

I think the statement that members income pays for the upkeep and maintenance of the club, course and clubhouse is exactly right. However, without the income of nomads and societies the clubs cannot grow, invest and carry out improvements

Chris, Your idea is a good one but I would add a caveat onto the end of it whereby these "Associate members" only have access to the course after certain times (Tee off after 1pm in the summer & after 11am in the winter?). Imagine if they had an influx of these members & all of a sudden on a weekend the course got congested. Existing 7 day members would soon get fed up, maybe even leave?

If any club is good enough & has the facilities to back it up then you shouldn't need to drop your prices to encourage new members. You don't go shopping in M&S expecting to see Aldi prices do you?

JF.

As others have already said, this has turned into a great thread. I can see both sides of the discussion, as I have enjoyed being a member in the past but am presently nomadic. The cost over the number of rounds I can play and quality of courses are reasons that I have given for not being a member; but thinking about it more. You can't put a price on standing on the back tees of the first in a monthly medal. �1 front �1 back �1 overall and �1 par 3s with your mates doesn't come close to proper competitive stroke play. They are both thoroughly enjoyable and different but only members will ever experience the course in the way that it was designed to be played ( from the whites in how many strokes not points ) I just wish that I had enough time in my life at the moment to rejoin and have a go at getting better at this amazing game.

Tim,

My first ever medal round showed me how far I had to go to get anywhere near a decent level in this great game. It's never over until you hole out on the 18th.

I think playing stableford is bad for your game as it gives you a 'Gung Ho' mentality & your course management suffers.

Sorry Peter, we have changed the thread slightly to being a member or not rather than 2 day membership. I can't see why any club would want to do this. It may well tempt you into joining but the lost revenue from 7 day members swapping and even more overcrowded weekends would surely be the longterm result. Golf clubs are no different to any other business selling a product. Those that have a desirable product at an appropriate price will prosper and those that don't will have to look into other revenue streams. As I don't work in the golf industry I am not speaking with authority, and there are lots of other factors like the age of club membership, how clubs attract younger members for the future, increasing off course sales revenue etc, but I wouldn't have thought that trying to bring in extra revenue with weekend membership is a viable option. There is no doubt that some clubs need to evolve to survive, but there are plenty more that don't. Times are difficult for most businesses at present, so management is more important than ever, but short term solutions are not the way to maintain a happy long term membership.

Brian i think some of your points are excellent but some however are a little irrelevant. i understand the cost of running a club must be huge but if your going to comment on the price rise of diesel over 2 years id like to compare it to the rise in fees, and the decline/rise in members, Also that if you need 100 members paying �500 to upkeep a club then surely 150 members paying �400 is better?? Its really weird that since this thread opened ive had 2 clubs send me letters about reduced memberships (both of which i would rather of signed up at that the one i did, DOH). Today's letter was from fairwood park in Swansea which usually charges over �1200 and for me as a special offer, at this prestigious location, for this year..........�330!!! no joining fee, 4 free lessons, 10 free rounds for friends or family, 3 months free and full unlimited golf. This is the same place i got lectured about because i was using pink castle tees lol It is nice though to read this thread and realise how passionate people are about playing and educating others to the financial side of club golf.

Alun, we've had one �15 rise in 5 years. So which one of us is right? We both are. We've offset the business inflation rises by being exceptionally frugal in other areas. In truth there are a number of financial models out there that work providing they are managed sensibly.

Some club committee's have a bunker mentality(no pun intended) and end up almost doing too little too late.

If a club has had to drop from �1200 to �330 it does raise a question of why have they left it reach a point where they have to drop their fees so much? And the next question would be have they changed their fundimental position on budgeting or are they carrying on down the same road, using the 'new money' to tide them over in the hope things will turn round. And if the club has been struggling, what areas have they not been spending money in to the detriment of the club/course?

And what happens after the introductory offer of �330? A rise to �1200 or more...? And does the member who joined on �330 stay after it rises? Back to square one in one year?

Tough times for the vast majority of us, both personally and in business. I'll pass the tin hats around...

I've no objection to my original thread developing into a broader discussion - and I'm pleased to see the passion that has been stirred up. Having said all that, I'm still not convinced that the golfing community should have to accept the current status quo that exists.

It seems to me that the cost of a traditional 7 day membership package is based on the same model employed by monopoly businesses such as Mr Murdoch with his Sky TV charging practices - and those are almost universally reviled! So if I want to access Sky Sports, he insists that I've got to pay 1st for a package of 200 additional channels of repeats, soaps and cooking channels that I know I won't have time or inclination to watch before he'll let me buy access to the sports channels.

In the same way, some of you are telling me that if I want to play golf on Saturday or Sunday as a member of a worthwhile club, I've got to accept that I must pay additionally for the right to play on all of the other 5 days, even if I haven't got time to do so - and it seems that your main reason for not wanting change is that you're afraid that your own green fees will have to rise as your fellow members suddenly decide to vote with their feet and all shift to a 2 day membership as well. Having shopped in both M&S and Aldi, I must say that I've yet to encounter any attempt by either shop to insist that I must buy 7 shoes when a pair will do me just fine, thanks. Yes, I accept that the shoes I buy in M&S will cost more and I've no objection to that principle.

Additionally, it seems that some of you actually want your clubs to keep their prices at a premium which ensures that your club won't actually be swamped by new membership interest from nomads converting to become "proper members" in the first place, in spite of your apparent desire to have all us nomads convert to become members. (Hence the frequent use of the "find a club that offers what you're looking for but don't expect our club to change its ways to accommodate you" messages earlier in this thread.)

I accept that a 2 day membership would have to be priced in order to cover a club's global costs and to avoid saturation of the course at weekends - and therefore may have to come with some restrictions on the time of play at a weekend, as some of you have suggested, but I do think that some of you could be at least a little more honest with us about the real reasons for your objection to the concept.

Peter, I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, I'm simply looking at it from the clubs' point of view. It's like train fares. If all your seats are full at peak times, there is no point in offering a cheaper seat to encourage more people to travel at those times - it's lose-lose, they can't fit the extra people it would attract in, and would mean that the people they've already got at peak rates would suddenly not pay them as much money. At off-peak times, reduced rates are available; hence 5 day memberships.

Bearing in mind the cost of weekend golf is normally an absolute minimum of �25/rd and usually much higher, for a club charging �1000/yr membership fees you only have to play once a week to be better off as a member before you think about the other benefits. Forgive me, but from my perch on the fence it appears you are wanting clubs to provide a special product that would suit you (and indeed many others) at their own expense and for zero gain on their part, which is not a sound business model.

If you play less regularly than once a week, there are clubs that offer either the points systems mentioned above or a nominal membership fee that gives membership (so you can play in comps, gain a handicap etc) but you still have to pay (slightly reduced) green fees. I used to use this system when I was away from home a lot as it was more cost effective but still allowed me many of the benefits of membership.

Whilst there are many clubs operating many systems to suit all sorts, we can't expect them to actively try and lose money when they have enough people to fill their tee sheets at the current rates, especially with many struggling to survive as it is...cheaper 5-day memberships would be a better option to try and encourage more off-peak players! Think of a 7 day membership as your two-day membership option: like the train, it costs three times as much as an off-peak fare, but at least the golf club has the decency to chuck all your off-peak travel in for free as well!

Some good points, Chris.

I'm not expecting over-subscribed clubs to be interested in this idea for the reasons that you've elegantly described - but, if John P is right in his view that there are too many clubs out there for the current market, it's surely about time that some of them reviewed their approach to membership options. I just wish that there were some in my own area that would do so, as with the best will in the world, those of us who have family, work and other domestic commitments can't possibly hope to maintain a membership at a traditional club with a �1k+ joining fee and �1k+ annual subs in the current financial and employment climate.

Peter lots of clubs i see around south manchester are ofering lots of deals to get people in the club some of the posh ones around here will not do that as they may well be full but they can all be booked on teetimes ect. as i said before i joined my club for �60 for the year that gets me handicap and reduced green fees which works for me you will have to see what happens after the masters or the open when people think i can play that game buy there pings and join a club and stop playing after a few months what i calll people with more money than sense like joining a gym and not using it, i am sure if you look you will see offers close to you or join a society and play that way

In my part of the world nearly all of the main clubs have retained their joining fees (mostly in the �2-3k mark)and maintained annual fees at well over the �1k mark above. There are one or two exceptions with a discounted joining fee here or there but the cost of joining a proper club is totally prohibitive to mere mortals with families and jobs. This is despite one or two very well respected clubs claiming to be "desperate" for members as they make annual losses.

last year i phoned round a few local clubs to find out how there membership costs compare to the club i was at ,every one i spoke to said if iwere under 32 years of age i would only have to pay half the price that someone over 32 would have to pay i do not mind under 25 getting a discount .but the club i was at there were more and more under 32 joining every week if they made it that the cut off age for a discount was 25 that could see them possible cutting the cost for the over 32

Clearly there's a massive variation area to area. We're spoiled for choice down here (I reckon I have 15 or more clubs within 20 minutes, and only two of those that I refuse to play due to dog walkers/dog poo/dogs and one other that's just a bit rubbish).

Five of those are posh (top 100) clubs that I always think of as too dear for me.

The remainder are public courses (inc a couple of munis, although not bad ones (no dogs!!)) with no joining fees and annual membership from �650-�1100, and all of them offering pretty good golf (a couple very good).

In fact even one of the top 100 ones, Broadstone, is now only �1000ish a year, and whilst the joining fee is prohibitive for me at least, they knock 2/3 off for under 35s to join (which includes me!) - having just found that out I'm sorely tempted to nip up there and see what the members are like and consider paying the little extra.

I am genuinely surprised so many of you are struggling to find good clubs with no/smallish joining fees, and am all of a sudden grateful to live in the SW!

Peter, I've just done a search of golf clubs around south Yorks & Sheffield and can find plenty for the price you seem to want to pay. This would give you the weekends & the evenings in the summer + the odd day here and there when you fancy a game.

And just because someone posts up something you don't like, it doesn't mean they're being dishonest. But in the vein you posted, let's have a bit of honesty from you too. You want to be a member at one of the �1k clubs, with all the quality that entails, but you want it on the cheap. You're after prime time golf on a prime course at way less than Muni prices.

Surely if you've played 60 rounds in the last year, that amounts to more than the subs at pretty much every club in your area?

There's probably some truth in your analysis there, Brian - I did start running a spreadsheet to keep track of my running costs including petrol last year - and stopped when it started looking like it was going to add up to a fairly hefty bill - but as far as green fees are concerned, I reckon I paid on average �15 - 17 a round across the year due to getting some real bargains via the various booking sites and making use of an associate membership deal at a course about 35-40 minutes drive away.

However, the real truth is that neither of my 2 most local & convenient private courses are either friendly enough or satisfying enough courses to play for me to be willing to justify putting all of my available golfing funds into just one of those baskets and give up my current nomadic existence (which is what I'd have to do, as far as my "financial advisor" at home would expect). I've played so many good courses & made so many good friends on the society front - people who just want to meet up to play friendly but competitive golf, enjoy some banter, have a drink, arrange the odd holiday and day trip - People who don't care what car I own, what job I have, people I don't have to try to impress or mind my p's and q's with.

Yes, it will take something very special to tempt me to give up what I currently have available to me. I'm not wanting a premium golf club membership on the cheap - I'm wanting a local club membership that is affordable in relation to my current golfing outlay and ultimately capable of outshining the benefits of a nomadic existence in the ways that some of you, JF in particular, have vividly described.

That quest continues....

I think there is definitely a preconception that 'traditional' golf clubs are stuffy and all about one-upmanship. I certainly thought that about golf in general before I started to play. When I joined a club I was completely new to golf and had only swung a club half a dozen times at the local driving range. I was incredibly intimidated by everyone thinking they were all going to be very rich, very into 'brands' and would look down on me. I have been so pleasantly surprised. Even before I joined I found the members very friendly and no-one since has ever looked down on me. I think you are going about it the right way Peter - obviously the course has to be good enough to tempt you but spending a bit of time to see if it feels the right atmosphere to you is also a must. We went round a few clubs which didn't have the same 'feel'. I suspect with the amount of research you have already done that you may need to move to find the perfect club!

peter what clubs a re local to you you are looking at maybe an idea to list them so others can look at say the web sites or even played there and give opion on them, also if you and your friends want to play you can ask for a deal on joining or if you are on your own you may just have to look at a taster to see what other members are like

I have a great deal at Reigate Hill. Flexi member scheme for �330 a year - gives me CONGU hcp, entry to monthly stableford/medals (not trophy comps), access to practice areas etc. It works on a "credits" basis. If you run out of credits you can top up.

This allows me to get a taste of club golf but also play in my very active work society touring Surrey courses throughout the summer twilight hours.

Peter, in more years of golf than I care to remember, living in the UK and abroad, I've had the pleasure of being a member at 11 clubs. There's been old fashioned stuffy in just about every club but in every case its been a very small minority.

Golf is a game of the working class in just about every club nowadays. All that members ask for is decent etiquette on the course and good manners in the clubhouse.

But if you're wanting society days AND club membership of somewhere decent I fear your budget just isn't going to fit...

We have no joining fee & �550 a year for seven day membership. I changed from a 5 day membership to seven day this year.

I rarely play the weekends as I'm retired and feel that those who work all week deserve good access to the course at the weekend, but do like the option to play at the weekend.

I'm also one of those who'd rather play around lunch time which allows us to go round a quiet course mostly with no-one in front or behind. We always pop into the clubhouse for a pint & a bag of crisps but rarely more than that as you've still to drive home.

What's the best thing about having a home course? You can tell if you are improving round by round...

Another option that is not mentioned yet. Join a local Muni for the small fee (�100) then join a better course over 30miles away as a 'Country Member' which is usually about half the price of a full membership. There are ways to get what you want out there.

David, I always thought Country membership went on your home address?

John,

I see Clubs using two criteria, 1. As you say 'home address' only and 2. You need to be a Member of another Club with you say is your 'home club' and is 30miles away.

I have known people turned down for 'country membership' because the RAC states they live 28miles from the Club.

From personal experience, when I moved back to Leeds I would need �800p.a to be a member of a local club, where I was only paying �550p.a. for Filey GC. So keeping my Filey membership (60miles away) I had �250 towards travelling costs. Then take in 'country membership' of only �290p.a,I joined a Leeds Muni for �100p.a.

Hi all,

I have very recently joined a club for the first time. I am self employed and my work involves strange hours and trips away so nomadic golf has suited me for the past 2 years. As I am keen to improve my game this year I looked around at 5 day memberships as I am able to play during the week. Cost had to be a major factor, along with facilities and having a club I liked. My work and other sports made the decision to do 5 day fairly easy but I can see how people who are only around at weekends may struggle finding suitable memberships in terms of both available tee times and cost.

Surely to keep the game going, get people into it and stay playing courses need to think about how to best serve their players. Clubs need to evolve their thinking in terms of membership and green fees. Each club needs to find a way to get it to work for them. In my area (Colchester) there are a lot of clubs and I guess they all find a way to survive by offering something different. So I would hope that there is a deal out there to suit every golfer. If not visitor green fees and vouchers do provide an excellant way to play the game on a smaller budget.