A day ruined by slow play

My wife and I set off to enjoy one final round today, before we return to work after our summer holiday. We teed off after a pair of guys, giving them plenty of time to reach the first green. We played the first and was quite surprised they had just got off the second tee when we arrived there. What followed was the worst case of slow play I have ever witnessed. These guys were waiting on par 4 till the group in front were on the green, then "driving "the ball 70yds into the rough. 6 or 7 shots later they were on the green. We had to wait 10 to 15 minutes every shot. They had no intention whatsoever of letting us through and after well over 2hrs, we were still on the 8th. We decided to leave and come home, our day totally ruined. I was absolutely fuming but didn't spoil my manners What would you have done in that situation??

I would have pointed out to them that they were losing touch with the group ahead and as such it would take pressure off them (as was obvious by their play) if they allowed us to play through. I sympathise with your dilemma Phil, as I'm sure we have all suffered it at some time.

The etiquette stipulates that one must keep up with the match in front and not just in front of the match behind. As this pair were not adhering to this I would have demanded that they invited me through.

Sometimes, Phil, one has to forget about manners as they would be wasted on players like this.

I don't think it's bad manners to ask a slow group to either keep up with the group in front or to let you play through. I've have played in groups when we have had to ask and it was no problem at all.

I find it's worse in big amateur tournaments these days. Kids seem to take so much time with their routines and nobody ever seems to let you through anymore, after all, a scratch golfer should never let anyone through even if he's spraying it all around the course? You don't seem to see course marshals too much either so you just have to take the bull by the horns and ask politely to be let through.

Rob, there are no big amateur tournaments that a 4.5 handicap player could get into, balloting is usually at 1 handicap at worse.

Two hours for eight holes sounds long, but if the course is playing slow that day there is nothing that can be done.

The rule of a complete hole behind is the fairest way to deem too slow, if it is for more than one hole. A group may have walked in, leaving a gap. Each case should be delt with on its own merits. Take driving on our roads. How many times have you been rolling along a safe distance behind the car in front when you have been overtaken and that car has nipped into that space. Move this onto a Golf Course and those idiots think the same and want to move into a gap that really isn't there.

This week-end was our Abbotts Hill trophy, 36 holes off the blues. Today we ended up as a 2 ball because someone decided that yesterdays poor round warranted his not taking part today. We quickly caught another 2 ball up and decided to make up a four ball. We then proceeded to catch up the 3 ball in front of them and completed the round with over a clear hole from the 3 ball behind us.

Ok John I must've been dreaming then when I played in them! I'm obviously not talking about the Walker Cup but county events.

Not saying you were dreaming, Rob, but if that is the case, then it only confirms what I have said all along. Standards have fallen dramatically over the years.

4.5 handicap would have made our second team only at Clevedon in the Western Daily Press league and would not have gotten an entry to any of our local 36 hole scratch events.

Walker cup is by selection only, one cannot enter.

English amateur strokeplay (Brabazon) would need at least scratch.

You have to bite the bullet and ask them to let you through. If they refuse then call the pro shop and explain what is happening.

Russ

Speaking as a 'slow' player I would have said speak to them. I always try and avoid holding people up becuase of my playing and as Micheal says it takes the pressure off me if I see people are waiting - If that had been me and you came and explained I would have apologised and gladly let you play through.

Interesting point about the slow players waiting until the Group in front are on the green before teeing off; I often (as a relative newbie) often wonder when to play since I am (as you described) not likly to get vey far with my shot but wouldn't like to cause issue by getting my ball too close to the players in front (wishful thinking!!).

Both aspects of this issue are diffcult to judge - when to let play through and when to tee off when other players in front - if you are inexperienced like me so it might just have been a case of not being aware.

Of course (IMHO) if you've explained the situation and they refused to budge then a few choice words (and possibly tickling their ankles) would not be considered bad manners but obligatory.

When there is a clear hole in front of a slow group then you never actually make contact with them. You are just always waiting what seems an eternity. Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Hitting the course at 4:30 today with a couple of mates with the sole intention of getting round before darkness hits. We'll be looking to play quickly and will certainly make our intentions clear if we get unnecessaily held up!!

John, have standards fallen, or are there now so many more leisure/nomad golfers and people interested, that newbies will obviously dilute the pool of talent? Therefore you have to open up a few barriers to keep people interested in competition. Look at the professional tours, with more golfers capable of winning than in a long time. It takes people time to reach scratch if they can devote the time to it (we all know you did it in like 5 hours, but I'm talking about people who just play for fun or don't have the opportunity to play regularly). How can the higher end of CAT1 golfers get better without entering the better competitions? Just my 2p's worth...

Chris, thank you for the points you have raised. I really do believe that standards of play have dropped dramatically due in most part to the way the game is now set up and played. Equipment enables most to hit distances we could only dream of, yet we have a higher handicap range now than there ever was.

interesting that you mentioned the professional tours as currently we have the Jamega Tour at my club and the better scratch players have shown that they certainly can play, but when our local player can hit the par five 11th with a drive and a nine iron it puts the whole game into perspective, yet he could only manage 81 and 76. Our other aspiring pro managed an 84 and an 87. This is a disgraceful effort by someone who really is a fine striker. My club is 7150 yards off the back tees and the pro's are reducing it to a pitch and putt.

So attaining scratch these days means very little and the handicap system protects them once they have got down. In my day of course 1 shot over the 2 shot buffer meant an increase of 1 whole shot, not .1 as is the case today. I might add that the reason the number of different players winning today has increased is because it has now come down to being a putting competition. Being a good shot maker is not a requirement anymore. Sad, but true.

Cat1 I believe is now higher than it used to be and the answer as to why the higher end of this category cannot get to play in top level competition is because there are enough at the low end of the spectrum to fill the places.

I noticed this myself when I went from scratch to one handicap, I found that sometimes I could not get an entry as I was balloted out at 1 handicap. Times were tough, just as they are now. Another reason why this type of competition for the better players has waned is because with the advent of slow play, clubs are finding it difficult to get a field of over 70 players through two rounds in one day.

It does not take a long time to get to scratch, that is a myth. Scratch players the world over make it very quickly

John I certainly agree that today's 'target golf' courses and modern equipment etc require nothing more than bullying your way to the green and putting well. Course management is becoming less of a skill required to play well. Going slightly off point, Ian Poulter was recently moaning on twitter about the length of courses and that pros fall into 2 categories, bombers, and shot makers. Interesting thought, instead of a score handicap, why not an equipment handicap and put players on an even keel (as experiment it would be fine, but there is no way it would be implemented regularly). The handicap system is a joke. We had the Bolton Golf Association championships at our course last month, 5HCP and under. Not one player broke par gross, and our course is roughly 5700 from the back tees. So I would like to think there's hope yet!

I'm not sure about the decline in standards but I can certainly get into most of the BB&O events if I wish. I had to play a qualifier for the amateur championship but otherwise if you're Cat 1 you can usually get into the others. The value for money in county events is fanatastic as well as you are usally playing 36 holes at the best courses with lunch included for what amounts to a nominal entry fee. I'm glad that these events aren't outside my reach as I feel I'm good enough to compete with scratch golfers on courses that they dont play very often as it levels the playing field a little. Let's face it, a 5 or 4 handicap as I am now, will give a scratch player a good game anyway. They are not gods and can be given a beating!

I have read this and many threads on slow play and to be honest my opinion has really been - don't worry about it, you are out on the course in the fresh air - just relax and enjoy playing at a slower pace for once. Well yesterday I came across a truly slow player and I finally understand your frustrations!

We were playing in the final Yorkshire Order of Merit competition of the season (by we I mean I was caddying for my husband). It is a scratch competition covering 36 holes and obviously it's for the best amateur players in Yorkshire. My husband being a 2.5 handicapper went out earlier with other higher handicappers. The lowest plus handicappers always go out last as the expectation is that is where the top of the leader board action will be. As expected our group of 3 played well enough but not well enough to trouble the leader board. But one of our group was the slowest player I have ever come across. He really was beyond belief. He had a caddy and they spent at least 1 minute before each shot discussing every nuance of the shot and conditions with the caddy finishing up each time saying 'commit to it'. Then followed a very slow deliberate pre shot routine which involved many full practice swings and several efforts to practice the one piece takeaway. Now a minute may not sound much but they didn't start their routine until it was their turn to play and those minutes really started to make a difference to our position in the field. The players behind started to bunch up and by the end of the first round we had a half hour gap ahead of us. Half an hour!!!!! We mentioned this to the Pro and Captain and at the start of the second round we were told that our gap in the first round was too big and we must keep up with play. The only 2 people who didn't appear to be listening to this was - yep - the slow one and his caddy. It was worse in the second round and we ended up taking 5.5 hours. It was the most frustrating, exhausting round of golf of my life. To add to the frustration the slow player put in the best score (but not good enough to be contending) and we also got drenched on the final 2 holes when with normal pace of play we would have been in the club house. My husband mentioned a few times that we were getting further behind but his comments were ignored. It turned out that his caddy was a EuroPro tour golfer - not sure if that amount of time is allowed on the Pro tours - surely there they would get penalised for slow play? Being an amateur tournament there was no-one to police it and I think they deliberately took advantage of that. Of course it impacted everyone else who was behind us. We had 2 2 balls in the following 2 groups who actually joined together in a 4 ball but they still caught us and were waiting. My husband and the other quicker chap wanted to let them through but the slower player again just ignored the entire conversation. So all the other players were held up by 1 player - how selfish.