Match play rules - advice
I played my first singles match play game last night which I won 5&4 so was extremely happy with that.
During the round I used a range finder which is allowed by our club but my opponent didn't have any distance measuring device of his own. Now it didn't happen but what would I have to do if my opponent asked for a distance from his ball? Am I ok to check this for him and give him the yardage or would this come under giving advice to someone other than a playing partner and therefore cost me the hole?
He never asked for a yardage but incase this comes up in my next match I want to make sure I don't start giving holes away.
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 12:58
Not 100% sure but I don't think there is any issue with yardages.
I'm sure there is a strange rule about not asking players which club they used though?
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 13:20
Yep - you can give yardages to your opponent if they don't have a measuring device and they ask as you are giving course information (factual) not advice. In fact I think if they ask you are obliged to give it to them.
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 13:21
apart from anything else why would you want to help your opponent!?
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 13:26
hope this helps.
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 13:35
Yardages can be shared as it's something he could find out himself by pacing. It is considered to be 'public information'
Darren is right about the clubs though. You cannot ask your opponent which club he used as you could gain advantage from seeing the result of his shot
Rule 8-1 Advice
During a stipulated round, a player must not:
a. give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course other than his partner, or
b. ask for advice from anyone other than his partner or either of their caddies.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 13:54
You are one down playing the last and your opponent asks for a yardage, would you stick 10 yards on or off when you give him the yardage.
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 14:05
"You are one down playing the last and your opponent asks for a yardage, would you stick 10 yards on or off when you give him the yardage."
Depends on where & if there were any hazards short or long of the green.
Or I'd tell him my battery had just died!!
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 14:18
I believe you are forbidden from witholding the information. It would certainly not be in keeping with the `spirit and etiquette of the game in my view
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 14:36
You are not under any obligation to provide information about distance even if you are asked by your opponent, however, you would be liable to disqualification if you deliberately gave false information.
Providing information about yardages is not deemed to be advice but, as Darren and others have said, you can't give any advice such suggesting what club to hit.
It's an intersting area, how often do you hear people saying ' your swinging it too fast' or suggesting you 'keep your head down'? This would be deemed to be giving advice and contrary to the rules of golf.
Last edit : Thu 17th May 2012 14:41
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 15:32
Dunno, if I was playing, say D. Ley and we were 100yards out I'd tell him it was 9.665452e-015 light years. Doesn't say what units you have to give it him in...
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 15:45
Wouldn't matter what you said to Dave Ley if you were 100 yards out with his short game Tim.....
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 15:47
I never trust anyones yardage having once been given the yardage to the next hole that was a par 3. Which said I had 170 yards to the green instead of 130 actual yards to the hole I was playing!
Tale of this story is to use your own eyes!!!!
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 17:51
Especially if someone tells you that their GPS says it's 6.3miles to the front of the first green. Oh dear, always check which golf club you're at, John...
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 19:49
8-1/2 Exchanging Distance Information
Information regarding the distance between two objects is public information and not advice. It is therefore permissible for players to exchange information relating to the distance between two objects. For example, a player may ask anyone, including his opponent, fellow-competitor or either of their caddies, the distance between his ball and the hole. (Revised)
Reply : Thu 17th May 2012 19:57
Although giving or asking for information about what club a player used is a breach of the rule on advice the following decisions are exceptions:
Last edit : Thu 17th May 2012 19:59
Reply : Fri 18th May 2012 00:31
I do seem to remember reading somewhere that if you have a GPS and the other person doesn't then if he asks you should give him a distance.
Reply : Fri 18th May 2012 07:28
Tim, Sometimes it feels like I've played 6.9 miles to reach the green ::Doh::
Reply : Fri 18th May 2012 08:44
I always thought it was a breach of rules to ask what club was used but if you really wanted to find out you could, within a club, know what they had in their hand and sneak a peak at the bag to confirm, however that wont tell you what type of shot they've played ie closing/opening the face, punch, 3/4 soft, 3/4 hard etc. Much ado about nothing really.
Reply : Fri 18th May 2012 12:40
Thanks for the replies guys.
In answer to John, I wouldn't particulary want to help my opponent but didn't want to get in to a situation where I was asked for a yardage but refused to give it or gave him the yardage and then lost a hole for giving advice.
All seems clear enough now. Hopefully the monthly medal tomorrow will bring the same result as the match play game in the week :-)
Reply : Fri 18th May 2012 20:52
Patrick See these links
Reply : Sat 19th May 2012 14:31
i would not give distance advice, if they want to know...buy a device
Reply : Sat 19th May 2012 23:59
Ken. These things usually happen at the Golfshake North v South, not a competition for the faint hearted. It's the only comp I've ever played in where the chances to nobble an opponent begin with the meal the evening before.
All in good fun though
Reply : Thu 24th May 2012 14:24
I sent this question off to the R&A to see if they could shed some light. there answer(s) were;
"I regret to inform you that the Rules of Golf Committee cannot answer queries unless they are rendered in accordance with Rule 34-3 of the Rules of Golf (see below). If your query is re-submitted through an authorised representative of the Committee, or if you would confirm whether you are an authorised member of the Committee, the Rules of Golf Committee will be in a position to reply.
Notwithstanding the above, if the incident happened in a non-competitive game, or it is just something that you are curious about, then please confirm that this is the case and I will be happy to answer your query. "
So i asked for the response for a non- competitive game & the answer was;
"There is nothing within the Rules of Golf to stop a playing partner asking for distances as this is public information, however you are not obliged to give the information."
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 09:07
I hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread but I also need some matchplay advice.
Imagine the scenario - you are at a club you have never visited before playing someone you have never met before. You are one of a team of 7 people and the 2 clubs are playing each other in a scheduled match. It is a B Team match so handicaps are all 20-30.
You lose the first hole and then you both take your tee shots on the second. You land in the middle of the fairway and your opponent lands in the right rough which is about 2.5inches deep.
The next shot to the green is through a narrow gap between 2 trees and the left hand tree also marks the edge of out of bounds. It is a very tight shot.
Your opponent goes first. She hits a shot, the rough snags her club the ball goes left and we both think it has gone out of bounds. She says oh bugger, err, I'll drop another ball (I keep my mouth shut). She does, hits it exactly the same place again. She hesitates, I can see she is thinking about giving me the hole but then decides that I might do the same thing so she hits her third attempt which goes straight. We move on to my ball. I hit my first one, which look ok but it went a bit left so I said - I am going to hit a provisional just in case. She says fine so I hit my next one and it goes straight.
We walk up the fairway to discover my first one was out of bounds but both of her first 2 stopped short. She then proceeded to announce she could play her first one and pick up the others. I said - err, did you say they were provisional? Oh yes she says. Well - I never heard her and I was very close to her. She never mentioned it.
As it was only the second hole I let her get away with it - am I a complete wimp? Should I have insisted? I am pretty sure the rules say it is the players responsibility to make sure their opponent knows that it is a provisional.
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 09:54
as far as i am aware if you don't say it's a provisional then any ball hit before that are not in play and the last ball to be hit (in bounds) is the ball that should be played, sadly you should have said at the time and insisted that your opponent didn't say so and played the hole out, you live and you learn
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 10:03
Judy, Alan is right. Unless your opponent makes it quite clear that they are playing a 'provisional' ball as soon as the ball is struck it becomes the ball in play.
Personally, I would have insisted on this. Never let people get away with cheating! If they are playing in a club match there is no excuse for not knowing the most basic of rules.
There are some rules people just seem to think don't matter - removing leaves and other loose impediments from bunkers and removing 'out of bounds' markers before playing a shot seem to be favourites.
Last edit : Thu 31st May 2012 10:03
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 10:44
i.m always amazed at how many players don't know how to take a drop from say a staked tree
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 15:22
Sounds like the 2nd at Driffield. Alan and Richard are both right, in that it has to be made clear that it is a 'Provisional Ball'. But when two friends play, the word provisional seems to disappear and be said something like "I don't like that, I'll hit another, just in case". I would take that as a provisional, others wouldn't so over the years I learned to ask when the word Provisional was not used. It also keeps things friendly.
Welcome to the 'art' of Match-play.
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 15:29
I'm with Lyth, I think that the use of err, I'll drop another ball is her social way of saying it's a provisional
but like others have said she needed to clearly state it was provisional
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 15:48
Darren/David - I think that was my dilemma. I knew she hadn't said it - she said something about dropping another ball. This was a matchplay between clubs rather than between friends and I didn't know how strictly to enforce the rules. If it was a social match I would have had no problem with letting them off but I am feeling a bit of a muppet for doing it in a club fixture.
I also had an issue on another hole. She hit it into a bunker before the green whereas I had gone through the green and was chipping back on - so I couldn't see her ball or what she was doing. She hit it out of the bunker and it just crept out onto the grass fringe - she was lucky as it sloped back towards the bunker so very lucky it held. She came out of the bunker and took her stance for another chip to the green. Again I couldn't see as the slope was away from me. She swung her club, there was a vague sort of expletive and she then shuffled back and hurriedly took another swing and the ball popped up.
Now she has the same pre shot routine before every shot. She didn't do this - her second chip was milliseconds after the first one. I am convinced she duffed the first chip and it was rolling back towards the bunker so she stabbed at it and took her second shot before the ball stopped. No proof but she looked very guilty and was very quick to pipe up 'I took 2 shots there' as if that made it all right. I obviously didn't say anything as I couldn't actually see what happened and also she had taken so many shots by then I won the hole easily.
I did stay very close to her from then on.
It is a real brain ache this matchplay business!
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 16:45
You want to ask your husband how to get into an opponents brain, he should know.
You had a great opportunity with the Provisional Ball. If you had said "I'm not sure, but I didn't hear you state a Provisional Ball so aren't you lying six over there", pointing to her 3rd ball.
Reply : Thu 31st May 2012 21:19
if you play this person again....don't let her out of your sight