2011 Golfshake Match Play Series

For full details see here:

http://www.golfshake.com/news/view/1749/Proposed_Golfshake_Match_Play_Series_2011.html

To help us gauge interest please enter your pairings below along with any thoughts you have on the event.

Update: 14th September 2010

Current numbers are around 23 confirmed teams with 9 people looking for partners

South - 9 teams (even split of 3 in S, SE, SW)

Central - 8 teams (even split of 4 in WM, EM)

North - 9 team (5 NW, 3 Y, 1 NE)

Scotland - 3 teams 

Looking good to go, will push on for some more team and then look to confirm regions and potential teams. 

Dave Ley & Kev Hewitt

should be 3/4 hcp max 18 like all national pairs comps.

I'm in but would need a partner.  As I am moving house soon, I may have to get one after I have moved

We're in, Paul Hindmarsh and Ian Prince

Central Div

Home club Newbold Comyn GC, Leamington Spa

David Homer & John Flood

Martin Millichip & Tim Hawkins

The dream team are back together!  Bring it on (especially Dave and Kev!)

Liking the idea. Not sure of the time committment needed and finding of a partner...

Andy that's why we have limited to 4 matches over a 7-8 month period, plus we can hold some sort of ballot system to pick teams or a 'find a partner' plug

Great idea in theory, but i think Andrew has a valid point about the size of areas covered. People would be great playing their home games but my guess is there would be a lot of last minute pull outs when people don't fancy travelling 100 miles for a game of golf on a grim looking saturday morning with a hangover.

Just a suggestion but how about 8 regions (Scotland, North East, North West, Yorkshire, Wales, South West, Midlands, South East) With the winning team from each region qualifying for Finals weekend?? Might encourage more people to sign up if they know theyre playing in their local(ish) area.

me and stu laws will have a go home course doncaster town moor south yorkshire

Christian and Andrew, great ideas and as you say yes it does sound good to have that many regions and if we could then we would.

It is all about gettings numbers at the moment and the ideas are still at an early stage in terms of organising.

We have written Scotland down to have it's own group even though it wasn't in the initial page, having two or more regions will again deoend on interest and numbers.

In regards to travelling far to a match, we understand that it may happen. But it may have to happen if regions are not filled which is why we have given seven months for the completion of your matches.

Again, early stages and we hope that this event can take off!

Count me and Anthony joyce for the northwest area

Count me in and i will also need a sucker  partner

I'd have no hesitatiton  picking you as a partner Daz, good luck.

wot about Matt?

as a partner, you simpleton!

hey. have you checked out that Newport video  I'm sure you will want to move across the border then only 7 more sleeps till Saunton!!

Yeh I know..

Hi - register myself and Steve Campbell please

I'd like to register myself (12.9) and my friend Martin Collins (11.9) as a team.

I live in Nottingham and Martin in Andover, Hampshire and we will play in the central region.

If the groups in central region are being created in a north, south, east, west bias would prefer playing southern teams in the region to help martins travel. No worries if not.

Cheers 

Great stuff guys, think we will start to compiling an official list of interested parties soon.

Graham Lock and Partner TBC, definitely interested.

Dave Roth give you plenty of time to heal the wounds, Bad hand and getting knocked out of the club Semi finals Pairs Matchplay!!

Adam/Darren Is this going to just be a pairs event or are you considering singles as well? Dave mentioned Mixed Pairs but I presume as an additional event rather than if they were allowed.

Early post re handicaps (Dave Ley), why would you lower above 18 handicappers to 18? why not have 3/4 difference but anyone with handicap less than 10 has to play of scratch, just as fair as what is being proposed. The R&A make recommendations and I have never seen one that says people have to play of a lower handicap than their real one! Also comment like all national comps, I entered How-did-i-do and Matchplay championship this year no limit on handicap other than max 28. They are national / international comps.

I doubt this would affect me, on current GS handicap or very little on club handicap based on a bad winter, but handicaps are there for a reason, you may always get bandits that are manipulating their handicaps, but in general I find that as much in the 10 - 18 range as the 18+

Myself an Andy Adams (18.4) would also like to enter.

Myself and Troy Burrows should be good!!

Stick myself and Joe Moore down too.

We're up for this... playing in the south (preferrable south-east if numbers allow)

Paul Melling (16.9)
Raffaello Cowan-Boscardi (24.6)

Agree with comments about max 18 hcp - totally unfair to those with more than this!!

Myself and Bill Donaghan for the North west also...great idea, love match play

I think I could muster up a team.

Myself (17.3) and John Slater (14.6). Home course Eltham Warren. Sarf London.

Well done Danny, first time I've seen some decent opposition on the list

Dave,

wait till you come up against the mighty lefties at Cleobury Just in case you want to change your partner I've got Dai ready & waiting

yeh a shame you broke up the dynamic pairings of leyo and Dai "the Dragons" with our 7&5 win over you but i will leave my partner as Santo as I will play with anyone ,win lose or draw we will have a good time. I was just thinking how easier it would be with two lefties as you were the weakist link the last time

Does that mean I'd have to play golf in Wales?

if it's not too late put me and a partner down for the NW

Ah, getting cocky now, eh Alan?

me and chris salter for NW

tim, just have to pursuade some one to partner me, he is a member here but doesn't know i'm homeing in on him

Thanks for the offer Alan, will happily accept

Seriously though, just finishing post work/tasks from the weekends Golfshake Open and we will then be sorting this. Looks like we have around 30 pairs so far so early signs are this will be a goer, we will be compiling a list of pairs and regions later this week to see how it is all stacking up.

SDS  don't even think about taking the underdog undersheep mantle thats firmly mine i'm Welsh

Dont yom mean "undersheep" dave :D

See the initial post back up at the top!  update on teams interested and regions etc

You can put my name & Mark smith down from the east.thanks.

I'll join in, and I'll persuade someone to join me, or else I'll have to let you chose!

South East region please!

Go on then...........me and John Spencer - North (South Yorkshire) - also likely to be playing out of Doncaster Town Moor

Hi Adam

I am defo in with Jan Burroughs. S or SE region would be good as our home course is in Brighton.

Let me know when you have sorted areas out.

It will be good practise for N vs S (at which we are unbeaten) (played one, halved one LOL )

Agree that top handicap should be 18. It is at our club for pairs comps. 

Yes thanks allan.

darren millichip and allan bostock

playing out of the south yorkshire area

I see theres already a healthy contingent from the finest society in the United Kingdom - CGL (County Golf League)

Martin Millichip & Tim Hawkins

Darren Millichip & Allan Bostock

Stu Laws & Neil Beech

James Illsley & Andy Adams

John Spencer & Chris Brannon

Good luck guys....

You do make a good point Andrew but if the rules stipulute max 18 for this competition then max 18 it is, im sure there are many competitions that include higher handicaps.

Andrew,

Not sure if that is the actual rule, it was just suggested by a few members. 

I've got to agree with the maximum handicap - it's really, really hard to compete in matchplay with someone getting two shots on a hole especially if it's a par 3 (which can happen).  If a high handicapper gets a par on a hole then it is virtually impossible to even halve it, and as for a getting a birdie on a par 3...

Tim,

Not impossible, I played in a match yesterday & my opponents got 4 & 6 shots on me respectively.

On our 11th 178 yard par3 they walked off with a par.........& lost the hole I stiffed it to 3 feet & holed the putt for a 2

But I also agree the handicap should be set to a maximum of 18.

Tim, the R & A , in their wisdom decided to change some rules which had worked for well over 100 years, this was probably done to accommodate those players who were unable to reach the standards of yesteryear.

Maximum handicap was 24 and when playing matchplay and taking the 3/4 rule then no competitor received more than 18 shots, one per hole.

I honestly don't know why these very high handicappers feel that they should be entitled to play in any event they wish, just because they have a handicap.

One cannot enter a County Championship unless one is 4 or below. Any major Amateur event like "The Brabazon" would require a scratch handicap and at the most ballotted out at 1 handicap.

Rules for Open events are at the discretion of the organising committee ad what they decide is what happens. Whinging about it will do not good whatsoever and in the case of this golfshake event, the object is to get as strong a field as is possible and I doubt very much if there would be much interest if the handicaps were stretched to the maximum of 28.

John

I agree. At our club there are competitions for all handicap categories. This makes it an even playing field & no-one feels as if there getting mugged. 

I don't think we should restrict the handicaps as this is not in line with R & A rules.  However, if we set 3/4 of the difference in handicap as mentioned by the R & A for matchplay, then the most shots anyone could get is only 21, and that is with a 28 handicapper playing against a scratch golfer.  As, with the exception of Steve Cowle, Santo and Lyth (apologies if I missed anyone), the handicaps on here start at around 7, no-one would get two shots on a hole anyway. 

Do things in line with th R & A rules and guidelines and no-one can cry foul

Of course they will not be getting 2 shots per hole but they will be getting 3 extra shots that I feel they should not be entitled to. It is about time the handicap system was completely restructured, because it just does not work and pandering to those who make no effort whatsoever to improve is not the way this game was meant to be played. Sorry, Chris. I just cannot agree with you.

Whether you agree with my opinion or not John, the rules are what they are.  As you well know, one cannot agree to waive a rule and as such we are bound by them and have to play in line with all of them, no matter how stupid they may be. 

I made my suggestion on the basis that we would be complying with all the R & A rules and guidelines.  Whether you agree with the rules surrounding handicaps or not (I know you don't and I agree with many of your thoughts on the subject), we are stuck with the rules as they stand.  As golfers, it is our duty to comply with them as honesty and integrity are what set this sport apart from so many others

Any competition can have its own rules inasmuch in the handicap restriction set for it.

Two quick questions.

If you have a handicap of 19+ will you still be able to compete but at a handicap of 18?

Is the suggested format of round robin with 5 pairs set in stone? as I think 8-10 matches over a few months could be hard logistically to comit to. What about a pure knock out with a team you are drawn against should be easier to arrange.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

@ Andrew , Andrew you are misinterpreting what is ment by that statement . It is not to alienate higher hcp'rs what is being said is that single figure golfers will be reluctant to enter as they will feel they have no chance when giving away two many shots.The word strong in this context means numbers playing not playing ability. The written word can be confusing some times.

scott, you really like to get your point across

One of the things that attracted me to and kept me on this site was the support given to beginners and high handicappers who want to improve their game.  I don't think my handicap would be as low as it is now without the help and support of many on this site.  It disappoints me when I see suggestions for rules and regulations being introduced that would discourage higher handicappers from partaking. 

Yes, the handicap system is not ideal.  Yes, a high handicapper who has a blinder will play further inside their handicap than a low handicapper who does the same.  But also remember, most high handicappers have a high handicap through inconsistency so they are just (if not more) likely to have a stinker.  A low handicapper will on most occaisions beat a high handicapper through a combination of consistency, experience and better course management. 

Most high handicappers would love to be playing off 10 or 15 or even 20.  Just because they are playing off 28 doesn't mean they are a bandit or do not want to improve.  For most, it simply means that at the current point in their golfing career they have not been able to to make that breakthrough.  Yes there are bandits out there but they are soon identified and not because they have one good round but because they consistently play well within their handicap. 

Please don't discourage high handicappers.  Many are new to the game and are the future of it.  Help them and teach them how the game should be played properly.  This will help them to improve and to love the game and hopefully they will pass this on to the next batch in a few years time.  Don't think they are all bandits or are happy to be playing off 28 just because a tiny minority might be. 

I was that high handicapper just a couple of years ago and without the support that was given to me then I would not be the player I am now nor love the game as I do now.  Don't, for the sake of our wonderful game, refuse that help and support the the current newcomers or it may not have a future.  

Very eloquently put Chris, and I can't fault your reasoning, after all we've both sort of been on this journey together.  I wouldn't want to see anyone put off from entering, because it's true that playing with better players does really open your eyes and competition improves so many areas of your game.  The only thing that worries me (and probably a few others probably) is, and I hope you'll concede this little point, if you get drawn against the 'serial high handicapper'.  You know the type, still plays off 24/25 but is, er, slow in updating their handicap and it turns out they're actually more like a 15....

Shame no-one seems to have continued the high handicappers competitions really.  The couple I played in were a real hoot. 

Tim,

Not a conceded point at all as i agree, and I think I covered it with this: -

"Yes there are bandits out there but they are soon identified and not because they have one good round but because they consistently play well within their handicap."

I agree too regarding the demise of the High Handicap Comps.  I think one of the reasons they fell away is that thsoe who organised and played with them have seen the benefit and reduced their handicap so would no longer be eligible (such as you and I).  Be great to see those back

There seems to be some confusion over the 3/4's rule.

It's not something that the low boys have just thought of, it's something that happens all the time in club golf comps.

No-one is saying that anybody with a handicap of 18+ can't enter, just that there handicap would be limited.

As it's a pairs comp as well you've got your partner to rely on so if you have a nightmare on one hole hopefully your partner will help you out.

I played with a 23 handicap player the other day and on the sixth hole he received two shots. It is a par five and after two shots he was on the apron of the green, nett nothing. How on earth can anyone play against that.

Keep the comments/feedback coming guys plus any teams interested in playing!

Out of interest, anyone object to the existing North vs South format we play ? and anyone noticed any unbalanced results due to handicaps ?

Darren,

This is a definite "If it ain't broke don't fix it" scenario. The format for the N v S is great and has been very successful since it's inception.

The only way I see a possible change is if we went to two days and played fourball/foursomes first day and singles on the second and final day.

Sean, in this particular case it was the mid-week stableford and yes I do get 1 shot there myself as it is stroke 1 but after my normal 2 shots I am usually left with about 160 yards to go for my third. I only make par 50% of the time I play it.

I play with very long hitters and sometimes they make the course look ridiculous.

Foursomes/singles would be my choice if I were running it, but as I am not, then I go with whatever the format is.

This is the format for the Ryder Cup as well as all county and scratch league clubs.

Fourball better ball is not the way to go in my opinion. To much good or bad fortune involved for me.

On further reflection, maybe switch to foursomes/singles matchplay as John has stated. I don't think this would take anything away from the event.

As far as handicapping goes:-

Singles - Full difference

Foursomes - 1/2 Combined handicap

I personally would welcome any change on these lines.

More for you to think about Darren 

Sean, I believe that you played with my long hitting mates at The Wychwood, David Ley and Darren Atkinson, so you will see where I am coming from.

We have a young policeman off 23 who hits the ball just as far as them and with the shots he gets he can be quite a handfull, yes he has his bad holes, but he also has many good ones, which in a fourball better ball makes life very difficult.

Foursomes is the truest test in my opinion because both players have to contribute, whereas, sometimes in fourball better ball only one player is doing all the work.

I much prefer the old rule of 3/4 difference for singles matchplay and 3/8ths of the combined for foursomes, but seeing as the R & A, (in their wisdom) have changed everything to suit the higher handicap player then I will just have to accept the rules as they are.

I understand where you are all coming from with foursomes, its a format which has been suggested before and also met with some resistance from some people as "i am not paying for a round of golf only to hit half the normal shots" agian understandable

personally i dont mind playing whatever format it is decided on at the start, although i would also like to see a texas scramble event added at some point

Those kind of players we can well do without, Darrren as it is obvious that the actual match is not their priority.

I think I fit in the middle of the handicap discussion, probably around 16 on Gs at the moment have a few rounds to enter, so could be receiving 8 shots or giving them (or 3/4 of them)

 maybe some stats that back up the current formula are here:

http://www.congu.com/template1.asp?pid=25

I am all for a level playing field and Congu seem to have created a levlish playing field with the bias still slightly towards the lower handicapper.

@Roger:

 >> I played with a 23 handicap player the other day and on the sixth hole he received two shots <<

The Above in a matchplay thread imples that you should be playing off of 4 or less it takes a read further down the thread to understand that you were just playing with rather than agaist th eperosn in question. Long can be great but can also be a problem with any wayward element incresed, do you think this guy is playing off an incorrect handicap? What points did he score for the round?

I would agree with others that thsi should be open to all handicaps at their designated h'cap and not eliminate in theory 25% of the field up front 

http://www.congu.com/template1.asp?pid=25 A myth in itself.

I agree that your handicap is a representation of your golfing potential rather than what you shoot week in, week out. I've knocked 6 shots off my handicap this summer by having 4-5 really good rounds. Believe me, the rest of my rounds have been very ordinary.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (maybe on the Congu site - somewhere to do with end of season handicap adjustments at clubs) that a high handicapper would be expected to average about 7(?) shots over his handicap over the course of a season.

So beware the player who always plays to his handicap. Having said that, there is a guy in our society that goes round fairly consistently most weeks, and I can vouch that he is honest in his shots and handicap. Very frustrating!!

No system is going to be perfect, I think the Congu system is fairly good. I'm suffering at the moment because of my good rounds in the summer. My solution? Keep playing, keep practicing and get better... hopefully...

Handicaps used to be based on ones best round under summer conditions played off the back tees in a competition. Players moved up or down whole strokes at a time, none of this decimal rubbish.

This meant that in a medal, most of the time a nett par round would have a chance of winning. In a bogey comp one would have had to play their best golf to finish all square. Stablefords never counted toward ones handicap as they were considered just a fun competition for points, not strokes.

When I mentioned to my present club why we had no Bogey competitions I was met with a blank expression. They had never even heard of the format. Now it has been introduced it normally requires a five or six up to win, something that never happened under the old system. You may consider this progress, but I don't.

I have read all the comments about maximum handicaps for the pairs competition, so here is my take on it.

 We should NEVER do anything to put off high handicappers from continuing to play and improve !

Having a 28 maximum would indeed put off lower handicappers.

If this is to be a comp rather than your standard Society day out (fun), some middle ground needs to be found.

I agree with what we did at N v S.    Lowest handicap off full allowance and the others 3/4 difference.

 This worked well and nobody would be put off from entering !!!

This is my idea, let mw know what you think ?

Ps In mine and your case John Flood, we always need our partners help !!!

Very odd refreshed the page and it posted again.

 Anyway to clarify one point People should play off of thier Full handicap and then as it is better Ball pairs 3/4 difference off the lowest handicap.

However if you have a 12 and 18 playing a 20 & 24 then the 18 would get 5 shots the 20 6 shots and the 24 9 shots.

What was being proposed was that the 20 & 24 woul dbe limited to play off 18 and so would only receive 5 shots each

Graham

Lowest off scratch, everyone else 3/4 the difference.  Standard for the majority of matchplay games I've ever played in.  Lower of Official club and Golfshake handicap top be used. 

The cream will always rise to the top and bandits will quickly stand out a mile

Thats what i was trying not so elequently to say LOL.

"Lowest off scratch, everyone else 3/4 the difference.  Standard for the majority of matchplay games I've ever played in.  Lower of Official club and Golfshake handicap top be used."

I'm happy with that   

David Marshall and myself with our home course being South Winchester are in

myself and jon crickmore for the NW please

If anyone requires a partner for South East or South West, would be great to be included.

Nice one Deano ,hope we get drawn you pair,

You have to admire optimism dont you i'ts just aswell Deano has a strong back.

Good likeness :;smile::

I am interested in the proposed matchplay series 2011,

My team:  Alfred M Pickard hcp10 and Ben Pickard hcp16

Please keep me informed.

Alfred Pickard

Paul Smith & John standing - Southern area - definitley interested

Look forward to getting the details of where to apply.

Cheers

John

What's happening with this? Really looking forward to getting going with it.

Need more practice in playing competitions

Just what i've been thinking

Info within the next week. Looks like enough teams/regions so finalising final format/venue etc along with other GS events

Great stuff. Can't wait.

Hi Adam,

Is it too late to join the competition ? If not please enter myself, Tony Smith 22.7 and my son Dave Smith 12.7 We are based in the north east

Thanks

I want to join in with this, but I have two issues at the moment: -

1. I have moved house and know no golfers round here yet

2. I have moved house and have yet to pick a home course in the area

Tony, all fine.

Chris, will add you to nomad no partner list

Hi Mark, update this week.  Just trawling through the last list of players interested.

Hi, Any further news on this yet ?

Darren, would you please add me to your list of players without a partner - Thanks.

I'm in too, partnerless however.

Hi

Just wish to show a keen interest in Matchplay series, details below

Anton Prior - 12 handicap

Paul Folley - 17 handicap i think

Home course Cobtree, Kent

Team Name - Rank Outsiders

Not sure what else needed or if this is correct way to show interest?

Confirmation of Registration

Tony Smith 22.8

Dave Smith 12.7

Team Name . Smith Snr & Jnr

Home course . Stressholme GC , Darlington

League - North East

Just to confirm that home course for Paul Melling & Raffaello Cowan-Boscardi will be East Brighton.

mally grief and craig stevenson,north east

Michael Gallacher (21) Michael Collins (22)

Home Course Colmworth Bedfordshire Area East

Myself back in with Ian Prince, home course Stratford Oaks GC

Hi Adam

If I'm allowed to be in two teams can I also enter with Alan Gunnigle - home course Souhtport Golf Links.

If not just let my entry with Steve Campbell stand.

Thanks

Hi there, this looks a top format. Never done anything like this but I'll try anything once (or four times?)

Pete Salsbury (21) & Ged Sturdy (24)

Team Name: Monkey Trousers

Home Club: Blakes (Essex)

I am still looking for a partner, Reading area.

Looking for a partner in or around Stroud (Cheltenham, Gloucester, Cirencester, North Bristol, etc)

jon, let your partnership with steve stand and i'll see if i can get some one to make up the pairing.....

partner wanted, liverpool/lancs/manchester area, i have a home course or use yours (whom ever you be)

Dave Ley & Kev Hewitt

Team name: Dragons

Home course : Bryn meadows (Gwent)

Cool, keep them coming on the last push to finalise teams.

We are up for this competition.

Players

Russell Middleton

Graham Lock

Home Course

Stapleford Abbotts (Abbotts Course)

Team Name

Two Mad Monks

Players

Lee Coomber (19)

Dan Parnell (23)

Home Course 

Woodhall Hills (Yorkshire)

Team Name

CAP KAM

I think we need to get started with these games.

What with the singles matchplay and the pairs matchplay, on both courses making time for extra events will take some juggling.

Russ

Russ just to confirm the idea with this is to run a league where you play say 3 other teams over a 6 month period.  Hopefully this should be easier enough to squeeze in.

The society v society will not conflict with this and possible may just be a knock out cup but likely due to the logistics be run over 18 months rather than focused to just 2011.

I'm just updating teams now

Hi all, pleae check you are listed on this page

http://www.golfshake.com/forums/view/8254/Golfshake_Matchplay_Series_Last_Chance_to_Register.html

Last chance to register is Tues 12th April

Anyone desperate for a partner in the NorthWest?
According to GS I am playing off 26 (28 realistically).

Christian Reed (20.8) & Richard Southam (25.9)

North East Area

Home Course, Mount Oswald, Durham.

Players

John Coady - 26 handicap

Andy Wright - 18 handicap

Region

North West

Home course

Walton Hall Golf Course (Pay and Play)

Team Name 

Walton Wanderers

update here, down to you or help needed: 

http://glfs.hk/izlybP

Any more results to come in yet ?

http://www.golfshake.com/news/view/1749/Proposed_Golfshake_Match_Play_Series_2011.html