I'm going to be completely honest and hold my hands up and say this is a complete nightmare to logistically try and faciliate!      After some serious number crunching, format tweaking and playing around with various scenarios unless you have even regions and teams per regions it's almost impossible to formulate smoothly unless you just ran a knock out competition.

After a bit of work there are 2 options:

1. Test the current proposed format

I've got the teams down to the following 7 groups (see below) and it will all come down to you guys organising the matches between yourselves.

Each team will play 3 matches against other teams (home/away would be ignored) [hopefully each team will get 3 match ups) The top team from the 7 groups would progress to a knock out stage Format for leagues would still follow this format: http://glfs.hk/gsNNDI An additional wildcard would go through making 8 team in total, the following 4 match ups would take place Scotland v North East Midlands v North West South 1 v South 2 South 3 v Wild card/TBC

The 4 knock out winners will then progress to the Golfshake hosted in final played over 18 holes for the semi and 36 for the final.

 

2. Switch to a knockout competition

Based on the current 50 or so teams it would take 4 matches to reach the 4 team semi final.

 

Any other suggestions for simplicity ?

Mark Aughney & John McGaffney        
    Mark Love & Joe Moore        
    Scott Bracci & Justin Rowden        
    Andrew Mclelland & TBC        
    TBC        
          
           
MIDS1    Paul Hindmarsh & Ian Prince        
    David Homer & John Flood        
    Dave Knatt & Dean Spiers        
    Lee Fretwell & Martin Collins        
    Martin Millichip & Tim Hawkins       
    Scott Binch & Paul Barnard        
    Gary Allen & Mark Smith - Norwich?        
    Scott Dench Smith & Nathan Ratcliffe        Mansfield Golf Centre
           
NE1    Graham Fearnley & Alan Arnett        
    Neil Beech & Stuart Laws        
    Chriss Brannon & John Spencer        
    Allan Bostock & Darren Millichip        
    Lee Coomber and Dan Parnell        
    Tony Smith & Dave Smith        
   Mally Grief & Craig Stevenson        
    Christian Reed & Richard Southam        Mount Oswald
           
NW1    Steawrt Whittaker & Anthony Joyce        
    Jon Crickmore & Steve Campbell        
    Ged Keeley & Gary Spears        
    Graham Mclean & Bill Donaghan        
    Mark Davies & Chris Salter        
    Paul Skinner & Tim Shone        
   Keith Pick & Neil Evans        
    Alan Gunningle & Peter Gridgmen        
    John Coady & Andry Wright    Walton Wanderers    Walton Hall
           
SOUTH1    David Roth & Steve Goss        
    Russ Middleton & Graham Lock        
    Anton Prior & Paul Folley        
    Paul Melling & Raffaello Cowan Boscardi        
    Stuart Goven & John Sweeny        
    Pete Salsbury & Ged Sturdy    Meet the Meat    Stapleford Abbotts
           
           
SOUTH2    Dave Ley & Kev Hewitt        
    Kenny Chance & Dave Patrick        
    Paul Smith & John Standing        
    Alfred Pickard & Ben Pickard        
    Mark Ruth & Gary Richards        
    Tim Greaves & Jan Burroughs        
           
SOUTH3    Daniel Mould & Bob Cole        
    Danny Brant & John Slater        Eltham Warren
    Dave Marshall & Dean Elliott        
    Dennis Visser & Troy Burrows        
    Toby Topcott & Julian Wiseby        
    Michael Gallagher & Michael Collins       

 

TBC??    Colin Ainsworth        
    John Tyler        
    Phillip Newton        
    John Pettitt        
    Chris Perry W/M        
    Rob Lawlor N/W     

bumping to the top

hi iv just looked at thins and what a great idear you have but i see you have scotland and all england but what about wales, as there are some lovely courses round there

That sounds like a decent plan as far as i can see, will golfshake decide who plays who and will it be up to the home team to arrange the game by a certain date? lets get the show on the road with summer approaching and peoples on holidays!!!!

Darren,

Don't forget I asked you to remove myself and Andy a few weeks back!

I understand your dilema. as time is progressing and the format is complicated just opt for the knock out stage

Michael the SW2 which should be SOuth2 is people towards Wales.

Yep James I will remove you.

Keith that was the issue, with uneven numbers it wasn't possible to always work out the home and away option so hoping that your guys can sort between yourselves   we even tried a system using Google spreadsheet to get you to pick who you would play but that was flawed!

Personally though if we make each pair play 3 matches they can be spread from May until Oct/Nov given a good 6 months.

Maybe thinking that a pure knockout format may be easier if we ever want this to get kicked off.

I am happy to go with the flow though, just would be nice to get kicked off before my back goes again!!!

6 months sounds enough time to get 3 matches played. I take it you will get at least 1 home leg from 3 games?  Lets get it underway.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Darren,

I've set a few wheels in motion to try & get a few games sorted for me & Dave.

If everyone does this it will soon get going.

Could I suggest that for the South leagues they are small enough to play 5 matches so everyone plays everyone else.

format could be:

1 v 2     3 v 1     1 v 4     5 v 1     1 v 6

3 v 4     4 v 6     6 v 2     2 v 4     2 v 3

5 v 6     2 v 5     5 v 3     6 v 3     4 v 5

Darren you toss a coin and if its heads home away is as above if tails all fixtures are reversed. Fixtures could be played at any time and in any order. Or you just draw the players with the above order.

I assume as this is Four Ball Better Ball then this will be the usual 3/4 handicap difference, off the lowest player?

For those not familiar with the above 4 players handicap A - 11, B - 15, C - 18, D - 24, Player A plays off "scratch", Player B gets shots on SI 1,2,3 (4 .75), Player C gets shots on SI 1,2,3,4,5 (7.75) Player D gets Shots on SI 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (13*.75)

 

Russell and I will be home at Stapleford Abbotts

Darren,

I'd vote for the straight knockout, fixtures are mounting up and it would be far more interesting if sudden death.  You may get players losing interest if they lose their first 2  regional games which could lead to no-shows

@Tony maybe that would be the best option for the non south groups (maybe would work for the south) as the other groups have 8-9 so would mean 3 matches (or 4 possibly where there are 9) with the south 2 out of the 6 would get byes.

Maybe do larger groups as knockout to find the group winner and south as a league, I do think where possible an all v all format is preferable so that there is no perceived advantage to drawing the weaker/stronger teams (whoever they may be).

Or are you suggesting an all UK Free for all all the way until the final weekend?

Must say that I prefer the regionalised aspect of the group method to minimise travelling initially.

Is this going to happen now?

I vote for play 3 games. Luck of the draw wheather home or away. Top team goes through. Just want to get a few matches going. What does everyone else think?

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

I agree with you David, you are in the same league as myself and Dave Ley.

Our home course will be Dave's which is The Parc.

What's your home course?

Could you PM either myself or Dave with a few prospective dates and get this show on the road....

Hi Dave and Kev

Jan and I are also in your group, or is it that you are in ours LOL.

We are also in Sussex Dave so we should definately be able to fix up a match soon.

Kev, pm me with times and dates for you and Leyo. It is a bit of a treck to get to you from Brighton so if we cant sort it, then maybe we could meet half way ?

The 3 match option will give the event a bit of longevitiy rather than axing half the field in a weekend which should keep the interest going.

How about Darren you do a draw for the first matches to be played and set a dealine (like 4 weeks from now?) - and then each team organises their next two games -  which must be played within the next 6 weeks (or something along those lines??). If there is a need for crossover into other territories to get the first games going then it's easy enough for many of us to travel a bit with enough time to organise.

Totally agree with you Chris - let's stick with the 3 game format and space them out over 4 months as originally suggested. Darren could do the draw for the first game and then the groups can arrange their next two. All players should sign up to play 3 ties irrespective of results.

Go on Darren, draw it!

good thinking graham gets my vote

Yep got to be a 3 match to keep the interest and no more than 3 to ensure all matches can take place.

Draw will be made first thing tomorrow then to get it going, changes can be made if some have already organised matches.

Things are now looking more promising.. Can I also ask that you post the rules so people/groups that are new like myself know exactly what's happening

all done, just creating the info page

This sounds interesting now, if myself and neil evans are drawn against anyone else in NW then for info our home club is Brookfield, nantwich

John or anyone already sorted any matches before I put up ?

 

how will the differences in handicaps work? At the moment I am off 20.4 and my partner Neil off 25.7, how does it work if we was playing against say a 18 handicapper and a 16 handicapper?

Keith - in that situation handicaps would be taken as 3/4 difference from the lowest as follows:

16 Hcap  - 0 shots

18 Handicap  - 2 shots - SI (1,2)

20 Handicap - 3 shots - SI (1,2,3)

26 Handicap - 8 shots - SI (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)

Thanks to Mark fo rthe correction

Sorry Graham the last one is incorrect

26 hdcp = 8 shots (10 / 3/4)http://www.golfshake.com/scripts/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_up.gi
f" title="yes" />

Many thanks to you both for that and I think i understand the concept now, why is it 3/4 of handicap though?

Sorry but also what format are these games going to be played in and do you each play the hole individually?

Keith

Reason for 3/4 as is standard with all pairs betterball, you take the best score between the two of you against the best score of the other pair. so as its the best of two players efforts you play off a lower handicap to try and adjust.

So everyone tees off and plays their own ball to try and get the best score they can, you then take off any shots that a player may be allowed per hole and select the best "net" score for each pair the hole is then won by one pair or the other, or halved. So you go 1 up if you win the first hole, 2 up if you win the next and so on.

Evnetually one pair will be more holes "up" than there are left to play and they win 3 & 2 - 3 holes up with 2 to play. Or win by 1 hole on the 18th - 1 Up - or if it is all square then you can carry on playing from hole 1 with all the SI's still applying and then could win on the 20th Hole.

darren, when are you drawing to see who plays in what group of 3 and how will you publish it as still cant find much info on this event

http://www.golfshake.com/community/matchplay-league/2011/

Darren,

You seem to have put us in a group with players out in Kent way. Looking at other South groups there seems to be some around the Sussex area and even Brighton - right on our doorstep!!

If we go ahead, it would be much better to have the initial rounds as local as possible.

Cheers

still not able to view any info with the link, it just takes you to an empty page with format and teams and matches,any ideas how to view please?

 

Paul, how did you get to view who you were matched with?

Kieth, fixing that link now.  This will the initial regional splits I did

 

Mark Aughney & John McGaffney        
    Mark Love & Joe Moore        
    Scott Bracci & Justin Rowden        
    Andrew Mclelland & TBC        
    TBC        
          
           
MIDS1    Paul Hindmarsh & Ian Prince        
    David Homer & John Flood        
    Dave Knatt & Dean Spiers        
    Lee Fretwell & Martin Collins        
    Martin Millichip & Tim Hawkins       
    Scott Binch & Paul Barnard        
    Gary Allen & Mark Smith - Norwich?        
    Scott Dench Smith & Nathan Ratcliffe        Mansfield Golf Centre
           
NE1    Graham Fearnley & Alan Arnett        
    Neil Beech & Stuart Laws        
    Chriss Brannon & John Spencer        
    Allan Bostock & Darren Millichip        
    Lee Coomber and Dan Parnell        
    Tony Smith & Dave Smith        
   Mally Grief & Craig Stevenson        
    Christian Reed & Richard Southam        Mount Oswald
           
NW1    Steawrt Whittaker & Anthony Joyce        
    Jon Crickmore & Steve Campbell        
    Ged Keeley & Gary Spears        
    Graham Mclean & Bill Donaghan        
    Mark Davies & Chris Salter        
    Paul Skinner & Tim Shone        
   Keith Pick & Neil Evans        
    Alan Gunningle & Peter Gridgmen        
    John Coady & Andry Wright    Walton Wanderers    Walton Hall
           
SOUTH1    David Roth & Steve Goss        
    Russ Middleton & Graham Lock        
    Anton Prior & Paul Folley        
    Paul Melling & Raffaello Cowan Boscardi        
    Stuart Goven & John Sweeny        
    Pete Salsbury & Ged Sturdy    Meet the Meat    Stapleford Abbotts
           
           
SOUTH2    Dave Ley & Kev Hewitt        
    Kenny Chance & Dave Patrick        
    Paul Smith & John Standing        
    Alfred Pickard & Ben Pickard        
    Mark Ruth & Gary Richards        
    Tim Greaves & Jan Burroughs        
           
SOUTH3    Daniel Mould & Bob Cole        
    Danny Brant & John Slater        Eltham Warren
    Dave Marshall & Dean Elliott        
    Dennis Visser & Troy Burrows        
    Toby Topcott & Julian Wiseby        
    Michael Gallagher & Michael Collins       

 

TBC??    Colin Ainsworth        
    John Tyler        
    Phillip Newton        
    John Pettitt        
    Chris Perry W/M        
    Rob Lawlor N/W   

Paul who is more local to you ?

 

http://www.golfshake.com/community/matchplay-league/2011/

Darren

Our journey to play Dave Ley is a round trip of 300 miles. Are we or are they in the right region? If so, so be it. We'll make a day of it.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

PS our clubhouse burned down over the weekend and may have to change our venue but will let you know when we know.

@Darren

Looking at the draws for the 3 south groups 5 plays 2 home and away, There are many combinations that mean two teams do not need to play each other twice. Here are a few samples (all of which could be Reversed) so pick a combination then toss a coin to see if column 1 or 2 are home or away!

1 6 1 2 1 4 1 3 2 5 3 4 2 5 2 4 3 4 5 6 3 6 5 6 4 2 2 3 4 2 3 5 5 1 4 5 5 3 4 1 6 3 6 1 6 1 6 2 2 3 1 4 1 5 5 2 5 6 6 2 2 6 4 3 1 4 3 5 3 4 6 1

 

I think we should make this change or any other combnation that ensures no team meets another twice

i was thinking the same thing about the trip to play Dave Ley. Jan and I are in the same group as you Dave.

Maybe we will have to try and meet half way as it will be a long day on the road all round.

lets try and get this thing going all the same.

Where was your home course Dave ?

Tim

Tim

Not a member but our chosen course is Tilgate forest in crawley. Had a fire over the weekend and the club house is burned to a shell. There are loads of good courses in my area so shouldnt be a problem picking another, as I would like to have a pint or two after the match. Whats your home course from where you will play your matches?

Dave CAC handed Geordie

David/Tim think I got mixed up with your locations.

Graham, for simplicity the goal was for 3 matches for each team and to ditch home/away and keep open to maximise possibilties of courses to play.

 

Regards, Darren.

Darren

I can get the no home draws (though I think you need to have a team with the option to play at "home"

But surely when there are 3 matches in a group of 6 you dont want to play one pair twice?

What I posted up was four combinations of 3 matches for 6 players so that no one played the same pair twice. I put up four so it did not look like I was trying to rig the draw one way or the other!!

All the non south groups are fine, but the 3 south group shave 5v2 and 2v5??

Graham, now fixed and good spot I just had to tweak 2 teams in the 2nd matches.

Any thoughts on the uneven North West number of teams ?

Darren,

Would it be possible to setup seperate groups to match what's been drawn for this matchplay, will then be able to message the relevant people direct to undertake the matches.?.

Darren,

This was a great idea but the pessimist in me says that this really isn't going to fly this year. With a few other competitions I have now committed to I'm afraid we will have to pull out.

Sorry... Hopefully next year.

I'm glad we have managed to get to play three different teams during these games.

Now it's just about playing the games.

Russ

Paul, yup sure is a logistical challenge.   Nice idea but in reality getting correct numbers in local locations is a challenge

Maybe better suited to a regional knockout format intitially anyone have any thoughts ?

@Darren the only way I can see you evening up the 9 team group is that you draw one team to play a 4th match against team 6.

This could be done one of two ways, as an incentive the lucky team playing 4 games gets to count their best 3 results, slight advantage but means they have something to play for in the match.

Or that team plays a non counting game against team 6, but expect them to play it like it did count and that would even out the games.

Sorry but that is the best I can come up with!

Just seen Paul's Post which puts South1 down to 5 teams.

Options:

Pick 1 team from NW1 and add the to South 1, means a bit of travelling but fixes your odd numbers problem.

Leave as is, maybe make South 1, 4 matches all against each other.

Go to a Knockout format you have 44/45 teams entered so would work on the basis of 64 Teams with 20/19 Byes. could take South 1/2/3 + half the mids in the lower half of draw and NE & NW + other half of mids in top half which would be fairly 50/50 on players and byes then play as a knockout.

There is a rsik with no financial commitment of people dropping out, (Paul not a dig at you as this has taken longer than expected to get going)

My preference would still be for regional groups. but will play regardless.

Just seen Paul's Post which puts South1 down to 5 teams.

Options:

Pick 1 team from NW1 and add the to South 1, means a bit of travelling but fixes your odd numbers problem.

Leave as is, maybe make South 1, 4 matches all against each other.

Go to a Knockout format you have 44/45 teams entered so would work on the basis of 64 Teams with 20/19 Byes. could take South 1/2/3 + half the mids in the lower half of draw and NE & NW + other half of mids in top half which would be fairly 50/50 on players and byes then play as a knockout.

There is a rsik with no financial commitment of people dropping out, (Paul not a dig at you as this has taken longer than expected to get going)

My preference would still be for regional groups. but will play regardless.

Darren Ramowski

I have sent you a PM re a fixture swap in South group 2.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Have I missed something or is this going to replace the golfshake open this year?

Hi Darren

Thought that it might have been the case that areas were mixed up.

We would rather not travel 4 hours each way for a game, but we will try to if we have to.

Are the groups final ? Are we good to go ?

Just need the nod from you to start arranging games.

Lets get this thing going.

Guys, doing the swaps.

Tim, good to go, I'm chasing everyone now to get arraning.

Paul, this was the update on events etc - http://www.golfshake.com/forums/view/8372/GolfshakeEventUpdateGSOpen_etc.html

MARK RUTH / GARY RICHARDS.

Dave Patrick has PM'ed the two of you with regards to arranging our match.  Please try to let us know of your availabilty as soon as possible.  If you can not make this coming weekend, we can make other arrangements.  Thanks, Ken...

Darren

You may have missed Paul Melling and partner dropping out of South 1.

This means there is no even way to play 3 games amongst 5 pairs (3x5 = 15 and you need an even number!)

Can I suggest the easiest solution is just to have all teams playing each other = 4 matches each.

Graham

Hi again Darren

Sorry to be a pain, understanding was never my strong point ! 

Are the groups now final ? and if so do we arrange the games (i am happy to do this) or are you going to do the first match ?

The shorter the words you use in your reply the easier it  will be for me comprehend what is what. LOL

Many thanks

Tim.

Darren, I have sent you a PM re this south2 group fixtures.

Cheers Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Can you confirm if you have arranged a match yet, only reply with yes and against who to keep it tidy and easy to follow PLEASE POST ON THIS LINK BELOW

http://www.golfshake.com/forums/view/8529/MatchplayLeagueMatchessofar.html

Just had 2 South drop outs so the South will get merged into 2 leagues.

Is there anywhere specific to post matchplay results so that the mini leagues can be updated?

In south 2 group. Dave Patrick & Kenny chance BT Mark Ruth & Gary Richards 3&2. W8 L5 H3.

It was nip and tuck all the way with all players playing their parts

Thanks Again Mark, Gary & Kenny.

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

any more match updates ?

http://www.golfshake.com/community/matchplay-league/2011/