Forum > Technique, Tips & Tuition

Gary Smith

To learn how to swing the club like a top lady golfer, hit the ball with distance and no extreme effort - have a look at the Swing sequence of Natalie Gulbis.

Look at the magazine online  -   www.swingimage.co.uk

Click cover or click swing sequences at top of home page.

Gary Smith

She must be doing something right as she has won 12,000,000 USD in her career, but does anybody know why she has to dip her head down so much as you see in picture 7 ???

It looks a bit strange and different to the swing of all other tour pro's...........

Loud Mouth b.a.

Gary,

It may possibly be due to bi-focal contact lenses - if such exist. I have to lift my head too high when chatting to folk if I'm wearing bi-focal spectacles. Opticians rarely get the position of the lense break correct. Or, it may just be a quirk.

Why do say "swing like a top lady  golfer?" Her swing is as good as the male tour pros -  wide swing arc, beautiful coiling, everything disciplined.

I personally believe that the ladies drive better than their male counterparts, and they are arguably far softer on the eye.  At the last Masters the gentlemen were only hitting the fairway two out of three times when driving. That's seriously bad.

Gary Smith

Thanks Sanders

We can all learn from the ladies swing.......and your right, she does have a swing as good as the men. I noticed the big arc in the pics also.......

Christopher Watmore

I had the great delight of following Natalie Gulbis at last years Ladies Open and will be doing so again in a fortnight at Birkdale.

She's not a big hitter at all on the women's scene. In fact I was quite surprised by how much length she lacked compared to a lot of the women playing. Her driving average for the week was only 243 yards, which probably is on par with most amateur male golfers. However the one advantage Natalie and most of the Ladies had was as Sanders touched on, they are nearly always in the fairway and hit the ball so consistantly straight with driver.

Her putting sadly lets her down more then her lack of distance. I was surprised with all the ladies actually how poor many of their shortgames were. Its an area I've always believe everyone can be good at as it doesn't require power or speed. We should all be able to putt as good as the best player in the world. Sadly the Ladies are poor, but the one's who are the least poor tend to be the ones who win. If Natalie could get some confidence in her putting, get some good putts under her belt she'd be more competitive.

As for her trademark dip, its actually very odd as she does it after she's hit the ball. Its not a move in the downswing to get the club back to the ball from some weird backswing position. She's hit the ball and then the dip comes more as part of her follow through. It though has started to create problems as she's now started to suffer the last couple of seasons with a back problem and I would think the strange movement on top of the stress the body suffers under a normal swing has contributed or created that problem.

Gary Smith

Thanks Christopher

Good reply and thats a very good point regarding her back - she might have to make some swing changes in the future........

Have just read a piece from a tour teaching pro, who mentions she may dip down through impact to compensate for the fact that she keeps her right arm under her left arm(through impact)more than any other tour pro's.  She then has less release....

The point of the swing that I find amazing is (pic 3/9 in the swing sequence) her wrist hinge. Most players have a 45 degree angle here already between the left arm and club-shaft.

Christopher Watmore

Having been at the Women's Open Last Week, I got to spend quite a bit of time up close and personal with Natalie during her practice on Tuesday and Wednesday, her Pro-Am round Tuesday, her 8 Practice Holes on Wednesday before Injury ended that round and resulted in her having to withdraw from the event.

I'm quite appalled by her swing now. As Gary has mentioned above the woman has no wrist set in her swing, she never cocks her wrists:

That basically means the only way to complete her swing is to use arm lift and massive body rotation:

What is Butch Harmon getting paid for to let this swing go untouched. I'd have loved to have given her some tuition. I'd have increased her distance very quickly.

John Pettitt

Chris, it is impossible to get into the top of the swing position she has in picture three, without cocking her wrists.

She has an old school swing, the last thing one does on the way up is cock the wrists and the last thing one does on the downswing is uncock the wrists. This is how I learnt to play and did so for most of my playing career.

David Marshall

Christopher Watmore

Loud Mouth b.a.

John Pettitt

There is nothing wrong in the old style method, I used to be what you are calling across the line when in actual fact the head is pointing right of target, but that brings the club down on the iside plane.

They teach the game differently today, but that method is as sound today as it was when I used it. Her winnings prove that and my Scratch handicap also confirmed that it wasn't a bad method.

Chris Perry

Loud Mouth b.a.

On 16th July I endorsed NG's' unorthodox technique.

Christopher, as is his right, has chosen to launch a detailed attack on it as being inefficient so I now likewise submit a detailed reply:

1.  You initially stated that "she never cocks her wrists." You later contradicted your initial statement by stating that she cocked her wrists late. Your second statement is the correct one. One cannot place a driver parallel to the ground without either wrist break or spine break.

2.  I suggest that irrespective of whether wrists are cocked early or late such will not affect initial club line at the top. Club line is determined by other factors. In Natalie's case her flying right elbow is principally the cause of her extremely odd top club line.  

3.  Body rotation ('coiling'  ) / arm lift should be the principal methods of taking the driver that far back, not wrist break. Natalie has a full professional coil coupled with a healthy wide swing arc.

4.  It is not per se a fault to initially slow one's left side down when attacking the ball. There is a 3:1 gear ratio between the right and left sides and so the right side has to be moving three times faster, otherwise one gets ahead of the ball and all is lost.

5.  Natalie creates a very healthy 95 mph swing speed if the below article  is accurate. (The article is four years old). Such is in part generated by a powerful downswing and excellent lower body rotation.

6.  Using the universally accepted 1.47 efficiency conversion rate one would expect Natalie to achieve a ball speed of 140mph. In fact she averages 145 mph and an average distance exceeding 250 yards. All respectable stats. 

7.  Natalie's swing looks odd because of her wild top club line and her unusual habit of dipping her head and shoulders through impact. Both look dramatic but nevertheless I do not personally regard either as being of any detrimental significance. They are no more than smoke screens shrouding a very sound technique.

8.  As with virtually all golfers Natalie's swing has faults, but such are relatively minor in the context her overall swing  strength, and each fault I observe is counterbalanced by an adjustment mechanism which ultimately results in her driver head coming into the ball square and fast.

9.  Natalie efficiently loads her core, and largely effectively releases her power, producing a consistent drive.  

10.  Her acceptable length and her accuracy are the acid tests which I suggest she passes with flying colours, notwithstanding that there are much longer hitters on the ladies' tour. 

STAT'S SOURCE:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_11_57/ai_n16832694/

**

Chris
topher asks the question what Bruce Harmon is getting paid for leaving Natalie's swing untouched. 

I suspect that this statement is rather 'loose talk' rather than  a serious statement, and does not concern me.

I will however make a general observation, namely that a swing coach broadly speaking has two possible ways to go:

The first is to tweak a swing which is essentially sound and produces good results, and the other is to  re-build to a 'perfect model of a swing,' or rather as close to it as one's student is capable of realistically achieving.

Sometimes the smart coach elects for the former. This can take a brave man when he is world famous and the whole golf world is critically examining his end product!

There is of course the factor that coach and student work together as a team. With a high profile successful player their input into the process is far more than say from  a usually compliant  amateur pupil. They will generally only move down a route which they feel totally comfortable with.

We all know the adage 'Don't fix something unless it is broken.' My view is that a swing may be unconvential and possibly slightly inefficient, but that does not mean that it is broken. The acid test is surely the result which that swing produces?    

**************************

David Lythgoe

To be critical, in the 3rd picture her right shoulder is lower than it should be in relation to her left shoulder. This will result in the 'dip' because she is not swinger her shoulders on the ideal plane. It is for the same reason she ends up with the club aiming right.

TheLyth

Christopher Watmore

Sanders great detailed post there.

I think I should explain that I've been looking at Natalie's swing for a while now. Based on her recent years on tour, her results and the fact she's now racking up injuries. I'm think the swing should be looked at and now its time to perhaps make some changes. I agree with what you say about 'If its not broke, don't fix it' but Natalie's at the stage now where this swing method is causing physical damage on her body and preventing her from competing. For this reason alone, is why I asked why Butch isn't trying to change things. He is a far more qualified teacher then I am and I would expect him to use that knowledge and experience now to try and prolong the longevity of her career.

I saw quite a few of the Girls at the Open the stand out for me being Morgan Pressel who in comparison to a lot of the girls has a very short and compact looking swing. Having view that Swing I can't see whats going to stop her from playing for many years. I'd probably try to incorporate some of that into Natalie's game and certainly my own as I think its a solid and consistant looking swing.

Darren Ramowski

Loud Mouth b.a.

Christopher,

I understand your concern and relate to it.

I too am a great fan of some of the ladies, but not golfers - athletes - particularly Paula Radcliffe. It pains me to see how often she breaks down.

Injuries can indeed be caused by a fault in how we carry out our particular discipline, but equally by training (and not least repetitive strain injury), by a pre-disposition to injury, and by poor diet - particularly lack of protein. It must be hard for her being both a golfer and a model as models very often leave themselves short. But hopefully Natalie is wise enough to employ a nutritionist via her management company.

I suspect that many of today's new generation of golfers are serious athletes who undertake very frequent gym. and stretching sessions. In the absence of such then hitting a golf ball several hundred times a day is a recipe for trouble.

The lives of professional athletes, vis a vis what most of them put their bodies through, is entirely different to what most amateur golfers undertake and so some injuries will occur.

But I completely agree with you: Too many injuries should make alarm bells ring and thereafter someone needs to get to the source of the problem, if indeed there is a solveable problem. 

It's good to have people in our lives whom we admire, and impressive that you care so much.

Dave ley

Chris has become her official stalker Darren I read it on twiitter!

Paula Creemer is as bad with her swing aa we know and she has serious injury problems too.

Christopher Watmore

Loud Mouth b.a.

Christopher,

Over the last couple of weeks Dave has:

1.  Admitted having a past relationship with Paul Glazier.

2.  Displayed an interest in showering with our wives and girlfriends on the golf course.

3. Accused you of stalking.

4. Suggested that I apply for work in MacDonalds. (Not even their vegan chain of ethical vegetable slaughterers).

....and a dozen other really wicked things which I cannot immediately recall.

What's to be done?   

Matt Simmons

You can learn so much from watching women perform in technical sports where men get away with using power over technique. The women are ALWAYS able to execute whatever it is they are doing with so much more technique and finesse than a bloke and it is always such a pleasure to see.

I learnt alot of technique from talking to and watching women rock climb. Stunning, Stunning, Stunning.

Santo. SOrry for the spelling......

Dave ley

Chris , just my humour bud you've read enough of my posts to no that, no offense meant,besides you have'nt got exclusive rights on writing humourous posts I too am a big Natalie fan and I'm glad she has been an insperation to you as we all need someone to aspire to.Personally she has help me on a few lonely nights .

Ivan, guilty as charged I'm trying to think of a suitable punishment

Forgot you were Vegan buddy so sorry for the mcD's comment.

David Marshall

The thing you have to understand about Leyo is, there is always a sting in the tale.

It's impossible to have a sensible conversation with him.

There is ONLY ONE sure fire way to shut him up.

Out drive him....You won't get a peep out of him for weeks 

Wayne Santorini

Matt Simmons

David Marshall

Matt...I don't hit the ball very far off the tee...So for me to win a longest drive is a rareity.

In 2 weeks I am playing with Leyo and Mr Pettitt at Saunton..I will get thrashed.

Therefore i have to make the most of it before I get my comeuppance

John Pettitt

David Marshall

You must have your browser set to recieve anything new about Natalie Gulbis..

You dirty old bugger

Loud Mouth b.a.

John,

I distance fixed your computer so that you can repeatedly keep reading how I defended both of our integrity.

Hope that you don't mind.  Neat eh?       

Matt Simmons

I'm only playing Dave, As long as you can get John to "talk" to leyo on the way round you should be fine after what JP did to him at the qualifier!!!

JP, If you go to edit your posts on here (hopefully it will be the first one), uncheck all the boxes that say "Check this box to receive notification if anyone replies to this post."

Might work

John Pettitt

Matt Simmons

Did it work?

Seth Cornelius

Natalie has a beautiful swing of course. The second pic of her looks like she is stiff and will not be able to make that same swing time and again. Does anyone suggest making a swing look natural? If you get tired and sore like I do when I am not swinging like I should I found back relief in a porch glider I purchased. I sit and melt the day away after a long round.