Forum > Rules and Etiquette

Dave French

Your ball comes to rest in a rabbit scrape right behind a tree in a direct line between ball and your next shot towards the flag. Do you get relief from the scrape, if so how much and in what direction?

This has become a very controversial debate amoung a large group of palyers and officials at our club.

Any views and interpretations would be appreciated.

Russell Middleton

My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that you are entitled to free relief from any animal scrapings. 

Then I would say it would be within two clubs lengths of it's original position, no nearer the hole.

So you would be able to move the ball to the side of the tree and continue without penalty.

Any other answers?

I'm going to work shortly so haven't got time to look this up in the rule book.

Russ

Dave ley

Found this which I think explains well enough

David Marshall

Dave ley

David Lythgoe

Dave,

I've had this one before and it is a strange answer.

Because of the tree, you don't get relief from the Rabbit Scrape. The "Exception" to Rule25-1b states "A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an Abnormal Ground Condition or (b) interference by an Abnormal Ground Condition would occur only through an unnececcessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play".

So if you end up in a Rabbit Scrape behind a tree, sorry, but no relief.

TheLyth

Dave French

The Lyth. We came up with that same "exception" as well and its a ruling that so many will have got wrong in the past. Its an assumption that we make that we can have the relief because of the abnormal ground.

The same analagy applied if you find yourself in abnormal conditions in the middle of a bush. It's "unreasonable" to assume you can get relief from the bush, when you put your ball there in the first instance, abnormal ground or otherwise. 

Going back to my first situation, the ball is behind a tree, it's "unreasonable' to make a stroke towards the hole because of the tree; so no relief can be taken.

It's very difficult one to determine and interpret.

I belief the officials were in a similiar position with Poulters ball in the shrub were he was seeking relief because of the tv tower in line of sight to the pin. It was considered "unreasonable' to seek relief from the bush that he could clearly not play through.

Darren Atkinson

Have to agree if your shot is already limited due to other interference then you cannot claim a free drop. Only the usual unplayable declaration can be taken.

John Pettitt

Dave ley

John Pettitt

He had run out of fairway down the right handside instead of turning the corner and nestled nicely up against an umbrella pine tree. He was trying to claim relief because of rabbit droppings but the referee was having none of it. John Paramour.

I played with the tour referee, John Paramour at Chart Hills in an Diners Club International event and we discussed this particular incident.

I have found a link to what happened.

http://www.golfmagic.com/features/golf-rules-we-speak-to-europes-top-re
feree/6421.html

You're perhaps best remembered for that ruling at the Volvo Masters at Valderrama when you wouldn't give Seve Ballesteros relief from what he thought were marks from a burrowing animal at the bottom of a tree on the 18th.

David Lythgoe

Dave,

I bet the argument was that if the player doesn't get relief to play towards the green because of the tree, he can get relief from the Rabbit Scrape if he is wanting to play out sideways. Then after dropping his ball he can then play towards the green if that option was now available after the drop.

TheLyth

Dave French

So we really still don't have a definative answer?

I keep being told that professionals play to a slightly different set of rules and its not right to compare it to Balesteros at Valderam or Finch or even Poulter playing last weekend with Garcia.

Wayne Santorini

John Flood

I heard something similar where a right handed pro asked for a free drop because an immovable object was impeding his swing which he was going to make left handed. He got the drop then preceded to play the shot right handed!!

Now that's using the rules to your advantage big time!!

David Lythgoe

Each Golf Club and the Pro Tours have Local Rules. A Golf Club doesn't need a Ruling in what to do with TV Towers and Gallery Fences but the Pro Tours come up against these every week.

"Stones in Bunkers" is one Rule, some Golf Clubs allow them to be removed, others don't. The Pro Tour states that the Pro's can remove them on every course they play a tournament.

The Rules are very complex when you look deep into them and it is when you know all the options available to you that it sometimes looks like you are bending the Rules.

TheLyth