Forum > General golf topics

Ray Lawlor

Sorry to ask another question on handcaps etc...

I'm wondering about the differing types of handicap. Some amateur tournaments ask for entrants to be "members of Golf Clubs recognised and affiliated to their country’s governing body and must have an official club handicap".

Now (and bear with me here). I'm assuming being in a golf society, and having a handicap from that society is not enough to enter a compition like this?

If so, how does one become a member of a club? How does a club differ from a society? 

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I feel like I know how to play this sport, and I can feel myslef improving each week. But a lot of the peripheral stuff I'm still learning.

I'm hoping to have my HC down to around the 10 mark by the end of 2010, I've joind a society for the first time and the first outing is at the end of the month. By this time next year I'd like to be competing in amatuer tournaments if I can, but I don't want to be left red faced about these sorts of rules.

Thanks in advance guys!

Adrian Hope

You need a congu handicap to enter club open competitions. To get it you need to join a club, if all you want is the handicap then you can join a municipal club without the greenfees, you can then get a handicap by putting in 3 cards signed by a member. You can then pay the greenfees when you want to play there.

Society handicaps may be calculated differently to official congu handicaps.

John Pettitt

To enter any decent competition one has to have an official club handicap. To enter a club competition one must be a member of that club. Open events will not accept a society handicap.

This is the problem with golf these days, there are now way too many nomadic players who play whenever they feel like, at whatever course they wish to play, thus not getting involved in proper golf club events being social or playing, yet then expect to be accepted into the golf club fraternity with all its benefits.

A handicap is only there to enable players of all abilities to compete on equal terms, sometimes however, we have all witnessed the level of scoring required to win anything these days.

My advice would be to join a  club and be involved in all aspects of that club. You will soon appreciate the benefits of this.

Incidently there is a very nice course and club in Antrim, which is not too far away from you.

Adrian Hope

Ray Lawlor

Yes. I assume you're talking about Massereene GC, of which my brother-in-law's father is a member (indeed he's the treasurer! n.b. I do intend to ask him about all this when I see him again!)

Thank you both for the info. 

Quote:  "not getting involved in proper golf club events... then expect to be accepted into the golf club fraternity with all its benefits."

I'll assume you're not accusing me of that but rather making a general observation, since my entire question was how do I get more involved in proper golf.

In my very limited experience, I thought a society was a good place to start.

John Pettitt

Nothing wrong with societies, Ray, after all I play in many golfshake events, but it is not a substitute for anyone wishing to really progress in the game. Being a member opens up all kinds of opportunities that a society cannot offer.

Ray, if you are going to quote me, then it would be nice if you quoted my exact words and not your interpretation of what I said, then if you had, your comments would have been unnecessary.

Ray Lawlor

Maybe I quoted the wrong bit John!

I think my comments were perfectly necessary, since I asked a question, and, as well as offering good advice, which I appreciate, you also made an overall point about the state of golf and some of it's nomadic players.

In an effort to rebuff any suggestion that I am a "nomadic player" I felt compelled to write what I did.

And to further emphasise my non-nomadicness, I'd like to point out that, having only (properly) taken up the sport recently, I am now looking for the best way possible for me to get involved in the sport and to compete, hence the question above.

John Pettitt

Currently you are a nomadic player, are you not? so any attempt to rebuff my statement is not valid.

You said you have joined a society which makes me think that serious golf is not exactly prominent in your current thoughts.

I offered my thoughts, you took umbrage and decided to be funny, that is your prerogative, but I am afraid it is completely wasted on me.

Hope you find what you want.

Adrian Hope

John Pettitt

Adrian, you have asked a question based on what I have just written, so will attempt to explain my position.

First of all I have been playing 55 years so have been a member of a few golf clubs during that time. Chingford, G.C, St. Georges Hill G.C., Clevedon G.C. Almerimar G.C. (Spain) Frinton G.C. Wimbledon Common Golf Club and currently Sherfield Oaks G.C.

I stopped playing when I had my first heart attack and when I moved to Reading three years ago I thought I would start playing again. I knew no one in Reading so joined the VGS and played in a few of their events, I joined Golfshake and Sherfield Oaks at about the same time, so I have extra chances of playing with like minded players by being a part of these societies, but I have always been a member somewhere.

I am also fortunate that being a member of Sherfield Oaks gives me the opportunity to play for free on 52 other courses, most of them in my area, in fact I have just been invited to play tomorrow at Pine Ridge G.C. as I have been told that buggies are now back on. I can only play with a golf buggy.

I have a wonderful group of friends both on this site and at my club who make sure that I still out to play and being an old man of 73 I find that very pleasing.

So, Adrian, as you can see I am at a different stage in golf to Ray and I was only trying to help him make a the right decision, which I stand by.

Adrian Hope

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with playing lots of differewnt courses. it gives you new challenges each time you play. Rather than knowing what club to take where ever you are on your home course.

I am looking foreward to playing in open comps all over yorkshire this year.

John Pettitt

If you think that playing at a private club means that you know what club to take every time, then you don't understand this game that well. I certainly cannot guarantee what club I will need on a day to day basis.

One still gets to play other courses even being a member at one. I have played golf all over this country and many other countries and they all bring their challenges, but that is a poor excuse not to be a member somewhere.

Ray Lawlor

I wouldn't say i was a nomadic player since I've just started playing, and I am looking into being a "proper golfer" and participating and competing as much as I can.

You seemed to criticise me because I'm not a member of a club currently. Given that ive barely started my golfing "career" surely this is to be expected. I wasn't born in a country club!

Right now im trying to learn about the world of golf outside the swinging of a club, i.e. rules, structures, events, handicaps, etc etc etc.  I'm only just learning about tee time bookings etc. How did I learn this? By asking questions on sites like this and getting advice from more learned and experienced players such as yourself John.

You also say that joining a society means that serious golf is not exactly prominent in my current thoughts.

How so? I joined a society because, to be honest, I didn't know what else to do. I mentioned to a playing partner that I wanted to take the game more seriously and he suggested a specific society, which I joined within the week. The playing partner of mine didn't mention a club so I didn't ask. A society also seemed like the best way for me to start competing outside my usual circle of 3-4 playing partners, feeling my way into competition and golfing life.

To be honest the prospect of spending £1000 or £2000 on a club membership before I've even competed (remember I did take up the game only in August 2009), seemed like nonsense!

My plan is to compete in a few of the outtings with the society and see how it goes.

John, as I said earlier, I do appreciate your advice. But I think your first reply to my question assumed I was someone who wasn't interested in serious golf but wanted, on a whim, to start entering competitions willy nilly...

The main thrust of my question was to find out the differences between a society and a club and to find out what I need to do to get involved in competition. I'm a competitive guy. 6 months of dragging my dad's friends around our local public course has left me bursting for a bit of competition and variety.

Maybe this next question will tell how clueless I am regarding competitive amateur golf:

Does the word "Open" imply that the competition is open to qualifying golfers from all different clubs (rather than a specific or hosting club) and anyone who qualifies are welcome to apply?

Adrian Hope

Heres a good website to find competitions in your area. you can enter most even when there is a handicap limit lower than yours but you would have to play off a lower handicap.

you might prefer to play mostly in pairs comps or teams to begin with. but you will need a club handicap.

www.golfempire.co.uk

John Flood

Ray,

I think your ambition of getting your handicap down to 10 at the end of 2010 is admirable although I suspect this probably won't happen. One of these reasons is that you haven't yet experienced Medal play in a club competition from the Medal tees. This is a completley different experience from Society golf.

Also if / when you do join a club you will be required to enter 3 cards to obtain your CONGU handicap, again strokeplay will be used for this, so you may find that you don't start with your current handicap of 17.9.

This isn't any criticism just making you aware of the situation that could arise.

John.

John Pettitt

Ray Lawlor

Ahhh thank you John that explains a lot...

So the official CONGU handicap is more difficult to obtain therefore it's more valued amoungst players.

Also that is one of the differences between Club and Society play.

The picture becomes clearer...

(Having read over this wierd passage of internet convo, I've realised that theres been crossed wires somewhere along the line, for which I apologise. Earlier when I was talking about "Nomad golfers" etc I was talking about 'intentionally nomadic'. Not that it really matters. It's not that I was refusing to join a club and at the same demanding to play in any competition, simply looking for information! Apologise again.)

John Flood

Ray,

No probs.

JP - It's the way I tell em

Dave ley

Ray, hope you get settled soon,you won't regret it.

Ray Lawlor

Thank you Dave,

Now that I'm a little clearer on what a golf club is, compared to a society etc I'll now start to make moves in that direction.

I think people assume that this sort of stuff in common knowledge when clearly for novices and newcommers like myself this stuff needs taught. I don't think, in fact I resent, being refered to as the problem with golf, when, the way I see it, it's people like me who are part of the future of golf. I'm still (reletively) young at 28 and plan to spend the rest of my life playing golf, buying equipment and participating. Just because I only started last August and haven't the knoledge of the social/competitive end of the sport, so didn't know about clubs/societies etc. doesn't mean I'm a problem...

David Preston

hi Ray

i have been a member of golf clubs over the years.  yes it is good to get a "proper" handicap that is CONGU recognised.  you also get the chance to get help from the club professional etc & in some cases even discount on products from the pro shop.  However if like me you prefer a more relaxed & fun side of the game i would strongly recommend to join a golf society.the banter etc will help you relax. you will improve your game due to competition against oponents without the serious side hampering your nerves.  playing other courses is also a good test as most of the time you play semi blind.  this improves your strategy & control of the ball etc. a few of our society members have even not renewed their memberships on their chosen courses as they have far more fun playing in the society. so for me esecially from the fun aspect which as an amatuer is what it should be about then join a society.  then if you wish & prefer better & sterner competition you can pay the bucks to be a member at a club. hope this helps

John Flood

David,

I've been a member of a club for the last 3 years, prior to that I played in societies (& still do). Since joining a club I have found that my golf has improved, I have made new friends & played with people of all abilites.

You don't have to enter the competitions if you don't like the competitive side of the game, although you'll still need to enter a few monthly medals to keep your handicap current.

When's there's no comps or medals on I can simply turn up & get a game with other members who enjoy banter & play in a relaxed atmosphere.

You can have your cake & eat it

David Lythgoe

There is another option and one I have taken this morning.

Due to problems with my health (knees) I have decided that paying £925 pa to play at Horsforth GC in Leeds is not worth it, so I will return to my first "Club" Roundhay, a 9hole Muni, but a great place. Membership is under £100 and I will get all the same benefits (CONGU Hcp, Comps etc) but now I will need to pay each time I play and at under £15 a time, if I play every week its still cheaper than Horsforth. But I will have to get used to 5hr rounds on a week-end.

TheLyth

John Flood

David,

With the warm weather hopefully around the corner would you not venture out twice a week? If yes then your 2nd option could become quite expensive.

I don't think I could go back to muni's just because of the differing levels of ettiqutte & as you say 5hr rounds.

Good luck.

David Lythgoe

John,

The G/F's for Leeds Muni's are £10.40 W/D & £13.50 W/E. Also you can buy a Season Ticket for £362 that covers all Leeds Muni's, thats 36holes at Temple Newsam, 18 at both Gotts Park and Middleton Park, plus the 9holes at Roundhay.

TheLyth