Mickelson a cheat?

Forum > General golf topics

Chris Waterworth

What do we all think of Mickelson using a wedge with U-shaped grooves from before 1990?  Personally I think if he can get an edge in the game (as if he needs it) then fair play to him - bending the rules is not breaking the rules.

Full Story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/8489846.stm

Adrian Hope

Wayne Santorini

Tim Hawkins

Firstly, he isn't cheating, the USPGA has the exception specifically written into the rules.  Mickleson has simply taken advantage of the exemption and there is nothing to stop everyone using them apart from maybe really jerking off their sponsors.  Whether or not it's within the spirit of the rules governing the changing of the grooves in clubs I'm not so sure, but that really isn't the point.

One interesting point that I heard yesterday is what happens in the Ryder Cup.  The rules specifically say that their use is for USPGA sanctioned events only, but the Ryder Cup isn't, so will he have to change his clubs for that event only? 

Wayne Santorini

David Lythgoe

It seems that a few other players have them in the bag too.

I remember them, you hit your Titleist Balata ball once with the wedges. It ripped the covering off them.

TheLyth

Ray Lawlor

Yeah Stewart Cink is using his: http://twitpic.com/10rj6s

Check your attic guys... these are probably worth a fortune on eBay!

Why don't all the players simply agree to abide by the new 2010 rules and go from there? Is there no honour left in pro golf?

Wayne Santorini

John Flood the lefty

Be interesting to know if he's had a new shaft on it & new grip?? Then it would just be an old head but new modern technology.

With the way they can clean clubs today I bet it won't be far off the new wedges of today

Gary Hand

They rekon John Daly has got 9 spare sets and alot of the european pro's are paying rediculous prices on ebay for these.

 I just wish i had some I could sell on

Darren Atkinson

Smells like cheating to me :-(  They change the rules to get rid of new grooves and they go out and buy some old clubs that only got in because of a long legal battle from the nineties or before !!

Plus most of these guys are not even sponsored by Ping so if you were their sponsor you would be pretty disgusted too, not in the spirit of the game if you ask me

I know what  i'll go back to a driver that is too old to have ever had the COR measured and play that in comps instead !! don't think that'll work  

Dave Ley

And besides we need to rein you in a bit anyway Darren11

I have a ping eye 2 wedge, any offers?? 

just notice if you go down another 2pts Daz I get a shot off you.

And i don't believe he's cheating the old ping lob wedge has been a favorite of many pro's for years.

Ray Lawlor

Russell Middleton

The new groove rules don't affect the amatuer game for a few more year yet.

It is not against the rules to play with PI2 clubs, so therefore none of the players using them are cheating.

From what I understand Ping took the USPG tour to court and won, therefore making these clubs legal.

The easiest solution to this problem is for the players to have a 'Gentleman's agreement' between themselves that none of them will use these clubs.

I was watching the US golf over the weekend and I heard that they would be having a meeting with the players to discuss this matter.  Let's wait and see what the outcome is.

The PI2 clubs are only legal in the USA and Mexico, nowhere else in the world, so they won't be able to use them in the Open.

Another interesting fact from the weekend was that people had tried to use a 64 degree wedge with the new grooves.  They got no spin at all with them, so they all agreed that the 64 degree wedge was dead!

Russ

David Lythgoe

Looking into this thing deeper, it doesn't seem to be a "V" groove verses "Square" groove issue.

According to the relevant USGA Decision, clubs manufactured before 31st March 1990 are not illegal under the new Rule. The decision relates to the distance between grooves. The Rule (App II, R5c(i)) states "the distance between edges of adjacent grooves must not be less than 3 times the width of the grooves and not less than 0.075 inches"

USGA Decision 4-1/100 states a distance of 2.3 times is OK for clubs pre 31/03/1990 in accordance with USGA Decision 4-1/1/Exception which actually mentions Ping Eye 2's.

TheLyth

Wayne Santorini

I would have thought both the USGA and R&A would have agreed on this together

Cindy Lee

Darren Atkinson

Did i hear right this morning that mickelson has now decided to stop using the ping wedges !!

A little late but at least he had the sense to correct a bad call

Wayne Santorini

Dave Knatt

Talking of dodgy clubs - my regular playing partner turned up on Tuesday with a bizarre "all-in-one" contraption!

It's got a lockable ratchet at the heel end enabling it to go from putter to 1 iron!

(I'm not going to complain until he starts beating me with it!)

Tim Hawkins

Russell Middleton

Yes, Mickleson has declared that he will not be using the Ping Eye 2 club in this weeks tournament.

Now, is he going to go back to using it after?

I think it's the right thing to do.

Russ

David Lythgoe

My memory is not crystal clear, but I seem to remember Ping bringing out two different designs during the late 80's. One had the grooves closer together than normal and the other was the famous "Square" or "D" groove.  The R&A and USGA then changed the Rule and Ping took the USGA to court and won. This court action was in the States and didn't effect the UK because the clubs in question were not available here then (1992?).

TheLyth

Dave Knatt

Thanks for the info Tim! Like I said, I'm going to save that for when he beats me with it!

Russ Rice

fair play the old ping eye 2 l wedges were crap big and ugly 

i bet his club sponsors are really happy him getting plenty of tv coverage for another brand lol

Dave Knatt

David Lythgoe

Dave,

Having an adjustable Club is OK and within the Rules as long as you play the complete round with them on ONE SETTING. The Rule is that you can't change the playing characteristics of a club during a round.

TheLyth

Dave Knatt

He he - I can't wait to tell my playing partner (after he set it to a SW!)

Thanks for clearing that up David. 

Christopher Watmore

At the end of the day the Ping Eye 2 wedge is legal. So if Mickelson or anyone wants to use it they can. Other pros can play them too. Only reason Westwood and Co were getting so upset about it was because they were having bad weeks.

I'm sure you could give Mickelson a wedge with no grooves and he'd still be able to get the ball to spin and do what he wants.

David Lythgoe

The R&A don't carry the Decision that allows these wedges, so they are illegal in the UK, so Westwood and Co can't use them on The European Tour. It seems that the loop-hole is something to do with a deal between the USGA and Ping from a court case in 1992.

TheLyth

Darren Atkinson

it is not about the legality for me it is about the standards expected from a golfing professional.

 Golf remains one of the few professional sports where the leading professionals attempt to self regulate in terms of gentlemanly behaviour i.e calling penalties on oneself, observing etiquettte etc.. There is still very little dope testing or similar in the sport and I think playing wedges that are not in the spirit of the new regulations goes against this; especially if Mickelson is so good he can spin a ball off a flat piece of metal with no grooves !! So i think most pro's appreciate the intended introduction of this ruling by not going back to some old club that gets around it !!

 Its a sorry day in golf when players try to gain advantage by this type of unsporting behaviour in my book :-)

John Pettitt

I feel that too much is being made of this groove problem, after all, some players like to spin it back, some like to stop it on a sixpence, some like it to check after one bounce, yet others like to see it run out a little.

No one method is any better than the next in achieving the required accuracy with a shot to the pin.

The secret is to play to your strengths and not attempt the impossible.

David Lythgoe

One of the avenues being discussed in this issue is the fact Mickleson is gaining an advantage. But wait, the whole US fields can use these wedges.

What about 64* wedges? If one player carries one and another player doesn't, don't we have the same issue? Back in the 70's, a 52* wedge was the loftiest you could get.

If a club is legal, then why shouldn't someone play it.

TheLyth