It's quite possible no one has ever asked you to become aware of the clubface, head and shaft before. But this is the only real key to a consistant swing! Let me ask, "If we do not become aware of where the clubface, head and shaft are, how can we either repeat or change our current swing and ball flight?" Becoming aware of our current alignments is the first step to progress.

Dissagree there Wayne - that's like telling Wayne Rooney to be aware of the angle of his foot, his ankle and his knee each time he kicks a ball

In my mind, one should think of nothing but where the ball needs to go.

If we do not become aware of where the clubface, head and shaft are, how can we either repeat or change our current swing and ball flight?"

So what do you do to send the ball where you want it to go????

so you just approach your ball and smack it exactly where you want it to go without ensuring your shaft is on plane!!!!!!

When you start your takeaway it doesn't matter if the clubhead goes behind your back on a flatter lie or even more so ahead of you.

Same with the top of the swing it doeasn't matter if the clubhead is aiming way right of the target or even aiming down to your left ankle???

I think you've mis read this Jonny, go back to the day you started golf did you play to a single handicap straight away? you only knew what to do by learning what not to do.

Someone with a low single figure handicap will be aware of where the clubface is open or closed or where the head is aiming or whether the shaft is on plane!!!, a beginner doesn't, which explains why they do the same unproductive shot time and time again until they do know.

As regards Rooney or in fact any footballer, they learn by kicking a ball and if it didn't go where they aimed, then they had to learn how the foot comes into the ball and how to kick it properly, nobody at a high level of skill thinks these things as they do them, but they sure as hell know when it didn't go right why NOT!!!

The thought of the day is designed more for the beginners to understand what they need to learn (until it becomes natural, like yourself) or how they need to think to play the game better.

 I agree Wayne. I think not enough is mentioned about the clubface: sometimes when I peactice I can be hitting draws and not know whyuntil it dawns on me that the club face is slightly closed. Getting the clubface square is very important and should be the first part of your set up (unless you want to play a fade, drae etc). 

 I agree Wayne. I think not enough is mentioned about the clubface: sometimes when I peactice I can be hitting draws and not know whyuntil it dawns on me that the club face is slightly closed. Getting the clubface square is very important and should be the first part of your set up (unless you want to play a fade, drae etc). 

Every movement of any part of the body, has a though process. As thoughts stem from the brain then it is obvious that the brain tells the body what parts to move and in what form to move it, being right left up down etc.etc.

If a player has no idea  where the different parts of club are throughout the swing is obviously not tuned into his own game.

The post at 1331 from Waynes is correct in every respect. A well thought out post Wayne in answering Jonny P.

Of course he knows what his club is doing, he would not be as good as he is if he didn't.

So what do you do to send the ball where you want it to go????

so you just approach your ball and smack it exactly where you want it to go without ensuring your shaft is on plane!!!!!!

Wayne - there are many great players who don't swing 'on plane' - everyone has a different plane and your either on it, above it or below it. You don't need to be on it to hit a golf ball to major winning standards. Thus, worrying about it is pointless isn't it?

When you start your takeaway it doesn't matter if the clubhead goes behind your back on a flatter lie or even more so ahead of you.

As above - hogan was way flatter than Sneed; did that matter? D

Same with the top of the swing it doeasn't matter if the clubhead is aiming way right of the target or even aiming down to your left ankle???

You get open faced player, shut-faced players and neutrals.

I think you've mis read this Jonny, go back to the day you started golf did you play to a single handicap straight away? you only knew what to do by learning what not to do.

Someone with a low single figure handicap will be aware of where the clubface is open or closed or where the head is aiming or whether the shaft is on plane!!!, a beginner doesn't, which explains why they do the same unproductive shot time and time again until they do know.

Wayne - I can swing all day 'on plane' but that doesn't equate to good shots.

You use motor skills to hit a golf ball - providing you have a good grip, you don't needf to do or think of anything about where the shaft is pointing, or at what degree the clubface is angled at.

If you clap your hands together do you need to think about what angle your drawing your arms back, or at what angle your palm is at impact? Is there any chance of you returning your palm sideays and ruining the clap? No.

That is becasue it is a basic motor skill - and you get all the basic motor skills you need to do this by the age of 5. With a correct grip, the clubhead is just an extension of the hand / palm.

There is no single swing plane that you need to swing on to hit good shots - and of those who preach that there is - each one has a different swing plane.

Out of interest - what is yours?

Wayne - to clarify, I agree one should be aware of how a clubface effects ball flight.

But I do not agree that a golfer - especially a beginner - should be thinking about plane or what the clubface is doing halfway back in the golf swing.

Golf - to me - is a fluid movement, not a series of positions that need to be 'hit'.

That is a more old school way of teaching I know, but that worked fine for the old generation - and some would even say produced better golfers.

Jonny, of course there are many different planes, swings, tempo's grips, you name it, in the modern game and no one method is better than the next, but, no matter what method you use one has to know all the parts that make up this method so that when it goes wrong, then the correct action to repair the fault can be taken. Perhaps it is this lack of knowledge about your own swing that is preventing you from improving even further.

Even when you clap your hands the two hands do not always strike each other at the same spot every time. I have just tested that.

This game has a few players with quirky actions but overall it is accepted that there really is only one way to play the game and the plane is one of the most important.

So what about the angle of the shaft to the grip, is that not on a plane??

as regards what is mine!! mine is very close to the correct plane and is an in-to-in swing.

A motor skill never the less needs to be put on the right plane, as a 1 year old I probably (as I don't remember) missed clapping together my hands perfectly a majority of the time. As a 54 year old I know exactly what I need to do to miss my hands meeting in a clap by 1" or 2" etc, the fact is I am aware of where my hands are!!!! but I don't conciously think of it at this age, but again I say that if I missed my hands I would know why.......(one elbow was bent up more, or one arm was outstretched more etc.

Many new players hit shots but don't know why the shot has not gone the way they wanted it to, it is only when they know where the relevants parts are that they begin to understand why the ball does what it does after they have hit it.

It is interesting reading all the new things you have learned on this new venture of yours, Wayne.

It is refreshing to be reminded of all that I ever learnt about this game from when I first started.

So few ever take an interest in the theory and mechanics of a sound golf swing and wonder why improvement is difficult.

In fairness John it has helped my game no end as you can see with my handicap, but more importantly I'm loving the game even more

Wayne - what is the plane that you feel is ideal to the golf swing? How are you calculating what that plane is? (i.e angle of shaft at address)

From what you've posted, you seem to be of the opinion there is one optimal way to swing a club, so I am genuinly interested to hear what method that is.

I think if you are starting from scratch then trying to groove that 'text book' swing is the right thing to do.  However, when you are further down the line in your golfing adventure there is too much already programmed into your muscle memory and unless you want to get to scratch and turn pro it's better to tweak your natural/ingrained swing than go for wholesale changes. 

but there is no one text book Chris - that's the issue I have.

What is right by one book, is wrong by another.

As a matter of interest, Jonny, your swing could be considered as pretty Orthodox, by many. Where did your inspiration come from to swing like you do, was it a book, was it a specific pro, amateur, or was it trial and error.

My inspiration comes from the pleasure of hitting good golf shots rather than any single book / pro / teacher.
As you know, I don't feel there is just one way to swing a club and so I don't subscribe to any one method.

I have been a student of the golf swing and it's mechanics for about 7 years - I find it fascinating. But I feel one should be open to many different theorys and try those that make sense to you. And if it works keep it, if it doesn't reject it; no matter what it looks like or whether a book tells you it's right or wrong.

I have been down that path myself and it can be lilke trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

I agree with you Jonny re square pegs and round holes.  I booked some lessons last year and while it definitely helped he was trying to force me into rebuilding my swing.  Now I know my swing isn't perfect, but I don't plan to try to make the pro-tour I just want to enjoy the game and play it well.  I needed tweaks and pointers to remove minor flaws and he wanted my swing to mirror Tiger's.  That's great for a beginner, but three years into your golfing adventure, it's not going to happen, especially when your build is as far from Tiger's as mine is!  I haven't been back to him.