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Another Ruling!

Russell Middleton [FORUM MODERATOR]
Handicap : 11.6

Posted : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 18:46

Here is another question to ponder on....

A player hits his shot and it goes off the fairway, there is a pond near there and some trees.

The player then hits another ball as his provisional ball.

You walk down to the first ball but cannot find it.

Having a good luck around it is decided that the ball must have gone into the pond.

The player then decides that he is going to take a drop from the lateral water hazard!

Now, I said that as he had played a provisional ball he should play that as three off the tee.

His reply was that as his ball had gone into the lateral water hazard he had no need to hit a provisional ball.

I then said that if he hadn't played a provisional ball then he could take the drop as we had agreed that the ball had gone into the pond.

Who's right?

Russ

Marc Davies
Handicap : 15.4

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 19:46

if the ball had gone into the pond then he can drop one behind it yes ,but if he had already taken 3 of the tee im sure he has to play that one but again im not 100% russell.

John Pettitt
Handicap : 16.6

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 19:49

If the ball definitiely went into the pond, I am afraid, he is, Russ.

John Flood the lefty
Handicap : 13.8

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 19:58

Russ,

John is right BUT you all have to be positive that the ball ha gone into the hazard.

I had a situation with someone where they hit there tee shot & as it was directly into the sun we all lost it. The player was positvie it was a good shot & would find it. We looked & couldn't find it, he then said "oh it must have gone into the ditch (which was a 300yd carry!!). The rest of us couldn't honestly say it did as none of us saw it so his only option was to take 3 off the tee which he did but then walked off after finihing the hole calling us all the names under the sun!!

John.

Tony Dunn
Handicap : 13.9

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 21:55

If no body can identify the ball as in the water then how can he take a drop from it. Got to be 3 from the tee.

John Pettitt
Handicap : 16.6

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 22:10

Tony, they both agreed the ball had gone in the water, so he would be allowed a drop.

John F is also correct in that it has to be 100% certain that the ball went into the water or the normal procedure then applies. Three off the tee.

David Marshall
Handicap : 9.7

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 22:29

26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard
It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after
having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In order to
apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in
the hazard. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player
must proceed under Rule 27-1.
If a ball is in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a
ball that has not been found is in a water hazard (whether the ball lies
in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original
ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which
the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly
between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with
no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be
dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the
margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water
hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i)
the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the
water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water
hazard equidistant from the hole.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball
or substitute a ball.
(Prohibited actions when ball is in a hazard – see Rule 13-4)
(Ball moving in water in a water hazard – see Rule 14-6)

Jon Williams
Handicap : 21.5

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 23:01

The difficulty with this rule is who determines the certainty. In Russel's example the very fact that the player hit a provisional suggests to me that he was not certain that the ball entered the hazard. If all the areas it might have gone are short mown you could argue the search provided that certainty but if there is long grass about or there is evidence of holes or indentations in the ground then there must be a doubt about the resting place of the ball and therefore it must be three off the tee.

John Pettitt
Handicap : 16.6

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 23:14

I agree, Jon, but the two people involved agreed that it had gone into the hazard and, really, that is all that matters.

Jon Williams
Handicap : 21.5

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 23:22

If they had disagreed who's view takes precedence John the player or the marker.

David Marshall
Handicap : 9.7

Reply : Wed 22nd Jul 2009 23:57

Ultimately it is down to the player to make the final decision. Most players are honest and abide by the rules.

Then again if it was a competition you could ask for a ruling from the Secretary.

Not knowing the layout of the incident, I'm not going to make any assumptions on a ruling

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