I was playing for my golf club yesterday.

The weather was really warm and we were due to tee off at noon.

So being as it was a big inter-club competition and it was going to be so hot, I decided to put my shorts on and use the sight of my white, hairy legs to put off my opponents!

Imagine my surprise as we waited to tee off when their captain pointed out to me that shorts were not allowed to be worn during Essex County competitions!

And the daft thing here is he was correct!!!

So I had to put on my waterproof bottoms to play my round of golf.  I didn't have time to go home and change.

Now I just thought to myself what a stupid rule, who in their right minds sat there and said "No matter how hot the weather is we must make all the players were trousers"

Do you know any other silly rules?

Russ

Russ, I don't think it is a silly rule at all. I have never classed shorts as reasonable attire for a golf course, especially when one sees what is being paraded around these days.

If this is the way of the 21st century then count me out.

I have no doubt that if the professionals are ever allowed to wear them then things might be different.

One of Yorkshires Golf Clubs bans Men from wearing Denim, but the Ladies are allowed.

John - before now I didn't realise that professionals weren't allowed to wear shorts.  Come to think of it, you are right.

Professional men, that is.  The women wear skirts and shorts all the time.

[edit: Well, you know what I mean.  Presumably not in bed or at the same time.]

Women have their own rules. You will have noticed their socks, or perhaps you haven't as they are vurtally hidden. Nothing worse than seeing a big fat lump of lard (Like Me) wearing baggy shorts and those womens ankle socks.

Shorts have always been allowed to be worn in the summer but the ruling was always that the shorts were tailored and the socks were knee length.

I personally have never had a problem with my legs getting too hot to even think about needing shorts to play in. There are many lightweight trousers on the market that are comfortable to play in.

Thats one of my problems John.

I am hotter and more uncomfortable wearing the Knee socks than long trousers, so don't wear shorts unless I can wear short socks.

TheLyth

Fair enough, David, but would you turn up in that attire if you were playing for Yorkshire?

I might turn up in that attire, but would change into County Colours to play.

I don't really know who has the stricter Dress Code, The Pro's (PGA) or the Amateurs (EGU etc).

BTW, did you see the Chilian (Filipe AGUILAR) at the week-end.

TheLyth

If I had ever turned up in anything other than my county blazer and tie, I would never have been selected again. it was hard enough earning it, so I was always proud to wear it.

I feel in the main that the pros are much better turned out than us amateurs, but then again they probably get all their apparel for free.

In respect of the Chilian, I don't have any means of seeing golf on the TV so I  did not see him.

john, i'm sure i've seen Freddy Couples wearing shorts....

In a tournament, Alan? I would be very surprised.

it may have been in the USA (if indeed i did see it)

I agree that is a stupid rule.  All that snobby stuff is daft.  What difference does it make.  As long as the course is kept in good condition, players are polite and play moves quickly-well I don't care if it's fancy dress.

In fact Poulter and daly play in fancy dress these days.

Rules like that are just set by old farts on commitees with nothing better to do.

I also don't see why woman can wear shorts and men can't-surely that's discrimination?

May well have been off Tour, in a Skins game maybe?

Many of the young Pro's arrive at the course in Jeans and Sandles or Trainers now adays.

"Wouldn't have happened in my day"

TheLyth

i have been googling and maybe my memory is as bad as my putting.

John P,

AGUILAR was wearing a White Shirt with the usual "Sponsor Logo's" on it but it was his trousers. Left leg Red, Right Leg White with a large Blue rectangle with a white star on it. The Chilian Flag?

I remember both John O'Leary and Gary Player wearing Black and White that way.

TheLyth

There was a section on Sky Sports News the other day about The London Golf Club (I think it was that club).  They have introduced an anything goes clothes policy,  to try and encourage new golfers, younsters etc.

I've never understood the tailored shorts and tee shirt with a collar-WHY?

Slow play, poor etiquette and not repairing divots and pitch marks is where they should be focusing efforts IMHO

Matt,

The golfing world is full of people with different tastes. A Traditional Golf Club with what you call a "Stupid Rule" will attract Traditional Golfers who wish to play the game in a Traditional way. If you don't like that sort of place, don't play there. But don't try and tell them how you think they should act just because you don't agree with what 'The old Gin-soaks' say.

Call them a "Snob" if you want, but if a guy is willing to pay £2500 per year to be a member of a club that doesn't allow Shorts, Tee-shirts, Jeans, Trainers and scruffy oiks on the course then so be it. You'd have to pay around £200 to have a round there anyway.

TheLyth

Wll of course it's just inion-I stated that.

But really I think I'm right.  What reason is there to place a dress code.  This is not a team game played at speed, where team colours are needed.   It's not a fashion parade or dinner party.  The only reason these silly rules remain are to keep the status quo and keep golf clubs for the old wrinklys with loads of cash.  I think it's very wrong.

Such snobism stops the game from progressing further in this country and makes golf remain a middle class game essentially. 

Im all for throwing out people for bad etiquette, messing up the course and holding up people.  But what difference does it make to anybody whether I have a collar on my shirt or not????  It's a piece of cotton or polyester for god's sake!

I was a member of a club when I was a junior.  As a junior I was expected to give up the snooker table to any senior member who came into the room-a bit harsh.  But also say "Good morning Mr President" and "Good morning Mr Captain" when the said person passed you.  The whole atmosphere was hostile and snobby towards a young lad who just wanted to play golf.

It's clear that you are part of this problem "Lyth" since you categorise someone as an "oik" based on what they wear.  I tend to do that by how they behave and not by their dress.

Matt,

Your opinion is just that, YOUR OPINION. Other people have there opinion too, if you don't agree with it, that's up to you. BUT (Mods Head On) don't question other peoples opinion in the way you do because it could be offensive.

It's clear that you are part of this problem "Lyth  Now I could take offence to this statement, why shouldn't I?

I am welcomed at every Golf Club I care to visit. Why? Because I respect there Rules, whatever they may be. Today Golf is available to everyone at some level.

Also do you actually know what a "Scruffy Oik" is in golfing terms, obviously not, because you wouldn't have said what you did.

TheLyth

International Course

Seasons

Monday to Thursday

Fridays, Weekends
& Bank Holidays

November to March

£55

£65

£65

£75

£95

£110

Here is the dress code for the London Golf Club,

Dress Code

It is in all our interests to maintain reasonable standards of casual but smart dress in keeping with golfing traditions. Golfers at The London Golf Club are therefore made aware that the following are required standards that must be adhered to both on the golf course and in the clubhouse.

Clothing
Any distressed or ‘dirty’ denim jeans, paramilitary style camouflage trousers, tracksuits, leggings and shell suits, Collarless T-shirts, rugby and football shirts are not permitted on the courses at any time.

Shoes
Golf shoes must be worn on the course and are not acceptable in the upstairs Long Bar and Restaurant areas of the clubhouse.

Changing Facilities
The clubhouse has every facility required for changing into and from golfing apparel. Changing in the car park is not permitted.

This above standards applies to both members and visitors alike and disregard for these very reasonable standards can lead to the person or persons concerned being asked to leave the course, or the clubhouse by the club Manager, or any senior member of staff.

This does not tell me that they are encouraging any riff raff to join their club.

John,

It is very interesting to read that changing in the car part is not permitted. They obviously had someone do a full change there, not just shoes.

TheLyth

John,

Just wondering, when you played County Golf did you hear of anyone being told that International selection would be unavailable to them until they joined a favourable Club.

I know for a fact that one lad was told "you would have a better chance of making the National side if you didn't have a Muni has your "Home" Club. He moved to Sandmoor GC and played in The Home Internationals a few months later.

TheLyth

Google search.......Scruffy oik??????

Matt,

Is there any subject you could comment on without rubbing someone up the wrong way??? Surely its time to look at ones outlook by now?

My opinion is this, No matter what you or I think, someone else is allowed to disagree, This is the beauty of the open forum.

Give it a couple of weeks, you'll get the hang of it soon enough.

Paul.

David L, I think that County Golf, like many other organisations attach great importance to where you golf is played. In Somerset it was recognised that one had to be a member of either Byrnham & Berrow or Weston-Super-Mare to get into the county side and it was not until the county decided to bring the county team around the clubs to play matches that the powers to be realised that there were many other fine players in the county.

I might also add that once ensconced into this little clique that it is very difficult to get out of. When it comes to selection they usually pick the faces they know and of course the players previous record.

This makes it more difficult for young players who are improving fast to get into the side, whilst older players are hanging on to something they really should not be a part of, as their game is no longer good enough.

In my time in County golf the only two players who made it to International level were Gordon Brand (Jnr) Knowle Golf Club and Gloucester County and Brian Barnes, Burhnham & Berrow, Somerset County.

Yet one only had to go across the severn bridge into Wales and play county golf fixtures and the whole Glamorganside were made up of Welsh Internationsal, the scalps of which used to make one wonder if the selection process is in some way flawed.

I'm reasonably new to the game, having only been playing around three or four years, but I don't have a problem with wearing tailored trousers/shorts and a shirt with a collar.  I do not think there is a club anywhere that would have a problem with the way I dress for golf, and I dress the same whether I am playing at the local muni or at The Belfry.  I do however believe that clubs so should recognise changing times and the wearing of ankle socks like the women wear instead of knee length should be acceptable (there are still a few that insist on knee length socks). 

Times have changed at most clubs and the days of juniors being forced to say "Good morning Mr President" and give up the snooker table have thankfully gone at most clubs.  I think this is more an indication of the class barriers in society breaking down and an acceptance of all as equals than a change in golf specifically. 

You are welcome to your opinion Matt, and obviously you will think you are correct as it would not be your opinion otherwise. You do need to recognise that others are entitled to a different opinion to you and this does not necessarily make them wrong or 'part of [a] problem'. If we all had the same opinion, the world would be a boring place; one politcal party, everyone supporting one football team, everyone driving the same car, etc.

Chris, you are relatively new to the game so have no experience of a proper golf club. The club you are a member of is not, in the true sense of the word, a members club and as such comparison with a real club cannot be made. Just like my club, basically a pay and play.

All this nonsense about fuddy duddy's is something that I never encountered in all the years I have played. I agree that at St. Georges Hill Golf club I could only join as an Artisan member, but why should I get uptight about that when it only cost me £2 per annum as opposed to a much more considerable sum of money.

There is more snobbery from new money than there ever was from people who were born into it. In fact I find those kind of people very charming and welcoming.

I suppose the difference is that we were all brought up to respect our elders, something that has disappeared, like many other things.

Clubs are entitled to make their own rules and expect everyone to conform to them.

If this goes against the grain then don't play there. I am quite sure they will not be disappointed.

Shell Suits - who owns a shell suit anymore!!  Ha ha!

John,

I agree with you regards the length of my golfing career and my home course, but I have played at a lot of different clubs and always abide by their rules and code of etiquette.  Like you, I believe that if you do not agree with them you just don't play there and they won't miss you.  I also agree that new money is where the problem comes from now as these people believe that they are better than those who have not been able to attain their level of wealth and are therefore above them. 

Chris W - I have one word for you.  Chavs!!!

Shell Suits - who owns a shell suit anymore!!  Ha ha!

One Sir James Savile

Now then, now then, shell suits, shell suits, lovely lovely!!

If you look at the history of Golf you will see how it changes through time.

Golf Clubs were formed by groups of Gentlemen who got together and put their own money into building a "Gentlemans Club for Golf". Before, they just hit a Ball around Common Land. Then as these Clubs grew popular, these Gentlemen allowed others to join their Club at a price which was beyond many.

Some of those Clubs are still around today and others have joined them and become very "elite" places.

On the other hand, the guys who continued to hit a Ball about on Common Land, also got catered for and the Municipal came into being, which also led to todays privately owned Pay & Plays.

Between the two, can be found a Golf Club that suits the wants of every Golfer. You can pay £5.00 for a game or £200,000 for a Debenture but in the end it's still Golf.

TheLyth  

David L. here is a link to a course that I played many years ago when I was an artisan. One can only play here by invitation only.

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/productdetails.asp?id=68

Sorry if it rubs someone up the wrong way.  But I just don 't think what material is on your body has or should have anything to do with golf.

What clubs are saying is if you have a tee shirt without a collar you are not respectful-you are a scruffy oik, and can't play.  If you have the collar then you are good enough to play the course.

Forget about taking 5 hours to go round, not repair your pitch marks etc-that doesn't matter-well it does, but noone monitors it, we spend more time keeping the status quo.

It's ridiculius.  I'm sorry if that rubs someone up the wrong way, b ut thats my opinion.

An opinion, Matt, that you are entitled to. So I can assume that when or if you get married then you will be wearing shorts and a tee shirt because of the hot weather. Have a nice day.

Matt,

As ever your taking things the wrong way. I have noticed over the course of your posting that you don't seem to handle light hearted banter well. Find it hard to see an opinion from someone else perspective.

The way you come across is some what blunt, so you have to expect that back. By saying David was part of the problem was wrong, when he was simply explaining the point of view from the clubs perspective. As he has played in tour events and been a pro at quite a few clubs, he has the experience to back up what he was debating.

If you read the post, the "scruffy oik" comment was meant as a generalisation of how golf clubs see players who DO NOT wish to adhere to there rules or policies! No one else.

Its not about being part of the click! Just about accepting forums are conducted in certain ways and manners. As we're not talking face to face, then the point as to be put across in a manner where as not to upset/rub someone up the wrong way. This is why smileys are used alot!

Paul.

THE LONDON GOLF CLUB

My fiancee and I went there to check it out as a wedding venue but we weren't allowed to look around because we were wearing jeans.

Mind you, it looked a cracking course.  It was the week before the European Open and it was probably at its very best.

The clubhouse has donated clubs on display - a set from Seve, Tony Jacklin's driver and so on - and it was amazing to see the marks where the balls had been repeatedly hit.  Seve's clubs in particular were virtually bare in a small sweet spot on every iron where he must have hit hundreds of thousands of balls.

John P,

Here's the Club that costs £200,000 even before you pay your Membership Fees, and only 10% of its members are UK based.

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/productdetails.asp?id=1512

TheL
yth

The reason for my response Lyth was because of the tone you used to me.  Just becasue I didn't agree you attacked me.

"Don't try and tell them" etc.  As you said youself, it's a FORUM and I am entitled to MY OPINION.  So why not try and tell them?  I'm getting mixed messages from you Lyth.

As for being offended by me saying you are part of the problem, I can't quite understand this.  I think there is a problem with snobbery at clubs/courses.  This often manifests itself in the silly dress policy clubs enforce.  You are adamant that I am wrong and these dress codes are for the good of the game.  hence, I conclude you are part of the problem, or I should of said your attitude is.  Also the tone you use to put me down.

Paul-not for the first time you have a little pop at me.  Are you John Flood's twin? ;0)

The Sky report was misleading.  It said you can wear ANYTHING, and showed a number of guys in football shirts drinking, with a number of other older guys in classical golf gear.  It made out anything goes, when obviosuly that isn't the case.  Good research.  The club seem to have it right-at least moving in the right direction.  i'm sure the dress off the course and in the clubhouse is very relaxed.

I have absolutely no problem with opinions.  I think it's great to have a little argument and debate.  It's just a shame quite a few on here get personal and nasty if you don't agree with them.  Then if you stand up to the little pops and put downs thrown at you, you get a load of abuse!

I can completely understand the clothing policy of clubs.  I think they are drawing a direct correlation between 'scruffy', 'urban', 'casual' or whatever clothing you call it, and people who don't behave well on the course.  I just don't think this is right, and that the courses should monitor behaviour directly first.  Surely thats more important than what material is round your neck?

There are lots of guys dressed in classic golf wear, with all the money and kit.  Yet they play at a snail's pace, never let you play through, don't rake the bunkers etc and are a nuisance to everyone else.  The thing is they have MONEY-that talks.

You make a very valid point Matt and I agree with your views, as I'm sure most on here will.  Anyone can wear a £3 polo shirt from Sports World and hack up the course with no idea of etiquette whilst the 10 handicapper who has nipped over for a quick 9 on the way home from work but hasn't got the 'right' clothing would be frowned on.  I agree that if courses enforce the clothing rule they should ensure that those wearing it keep up a good pace of play and observe the rules and etiquette of the game. 

However, if you tried to get into a pub or nightclub and didn't meet with their dress code expectations, you would be refused entry.  You may be annoyed at the time with the management's views, but you would accept it and go elsewhere.  Why could a golf club not ask the same?  I know the fact that you are wearing a pair of trousers and a shirt with a collar does not make you a better golfer, but it does mean that the club knows that the player has made some effort to play the course. 

In my experience when playing clubs with little or no dress code, the behavioural problems usually come from those who are dressed in a way that would not be accepted at a private club.  I have known these to be people who have bought a half set from a car boot sale for a tenner and thought they would try golf for a laugh with three of them sharing one bag (and arguing about who should carry it) while they rip up the course and take huge divots out of greens when they play a 7 iron off them. 

If you were a member of a proper golf club you will find that it does not take five hours to go round and the course will not be cluttered by hundreds of green fee payers. That is why golfers at these clubs. who do not wish to be a part of the modern scruffy game ,can enjoy their game with like minded people at a pace that has been the norm for over a hundred years.

I played a private club very near to my home on Friday last and we were round in two and threequarter hours The course was in impeccable condition, greens lightning fast and the members went out of their way to talk with us after the game. The reason I have not joined this club is because it is expensive and it would take me some time to get to know all the members.

Back on the shorts thing, I don't wear them any more.  There are too many ticks in the rough!

Matt,

I'm not having a pop at you, Simply trying to assist you into the forum. New members are like this for a while," DEFENSIVE". As i said before, you will soon learn the forum make up, and how you can be a part of that.

I to was just like you when i joined, thought everyone was having a pop at me, when in reality it was just straight talking.

Paul. 

John - if you can play that course by invitation only then I can't see how it qualifies as one of the top 100 courses; surely you should be able to play (if you can afford it!) any of the top 100 courses shown otherwise they are leading the readers up the garden path. Perhaps it should be re-phrased as the 100 most exclusive courses

Matt - these traditional golf clubs/courses are effectively, as TheLyth has already said, "Gentlemen's Clubs" and will only accept a certain type (or class) of person as a member (all old chums together, etc...) which has nothing to do with playing ability, more class segregation. There will always be a place for this type of Club since there will always be a market for them. I'd just avoid such establishments if I were you, as John says.

We were having a pop at you Williams, no-one likes you

 David L,

The course looks very nice and I am sure I would like to play it, but it has been built to cater for only the rich, famous and at the desingned length only for players of exceptional power and ability. As one comment said, 516 yards uphill into the wind is not a par 4 for the majority of those who play this game.

You are a very good player David, as one would expect from having had a professional career and probably still hit the ball a very long way.

The difference between us in handicap is 16 shots, yet if I were to play off your drives you could not give me anywhere near that amount of shots and beat me. So in effect what I am trying to say is that the par for me on these modern long courses is completely different to someone of your ability.

I want a moderator's enquire, I'm being abused and bullied!

What time are tee'ing off again on Saturday??? 15:20 PGA?

At least i dont get called the Perryranger behind my back

You deserve the abuse and anyway you like it!

Yes we're off at 15:20 on Saturday, assuming you're allowed out this week. 

I don't get called Perryranger behind my back, they do it to my face, along with much worse!

Matt,

You have  an opinion that Golf Clubs that have a Strict Dress Code are Snobbish and Eliteist, but also WRONG in having that Code.

I am saying that those Golf Clubs don't care about your opinion, they will set the Rules as they wish and expect all members and visitors to respect that.

If you want to play in a Tee shirt and shorts, thats fine by me.

TheLyth

John P,

Here is another course that you may have played but it is most definately worth the Green-Fee if you have not.

http://www.alwoodley.co.uk/

It may have changed now, but they didn't use to pay a membership fee here, you'd buy a share and were told how much they required from you each year. Could be £100, could be £5000. You must have been a "Professional Person" to get in. Monthley Medal list read Sir ?, RH ?, Father ? etc. I've gone up to play there in an afternoon and seen High-Court Judges being picked up after Lunch.

The thing about Alwoodley though is that you are welcomed with open arms as a visitor, but I would still call it Eliteist.

TheLyth

 I don't see the problem with any club setting whatever rules they want as long as they treat you with a bit of civility. If I want to play a particular course then I'll abide by their rules. If you're of that persusion that you look for anything that you can criticise or contradict then you're best not going there as all involved will just end up being p*ssed off.

Patrick,

You probably know about the old Free Memberships at Alwoodley and Moor Allerton.

The Friday after six lot at MA, and the Tarn Lane lot at Alwoodley.

TheLyth

Fair enough responses-I will stop getting into arguments and chill a little!  It just seems sometimes that whatever you say you get jumped on uless it agrees with the main people and all their pals-before you know it it's you against the board.  And being a stubborn fella I don't back down-appologies

Anyway, my club has the usual dress codes and traditional golf club rules.  I have been in a few clubs and they all have the same ways.  I have played hundreds more courses, and again they are all similar.  Ok, I must admit I prefer to not see lads with football shirts and the like hacking round the course.  The point i was trying to make was that what you wear doesn't really have any bearing on your etiquette and behaviour.  I think clubs take it too far, and just use it as a way to keep the status quo.  I guess it's the same trap that society falls into-hoody equals yob/drug dealer/vandal etc.

At my club I can go round 18 holes in 3 to 3 and a half hours.  But if I am stuck behind 3 or 4 gentleman, all in excellent golfing attire, I am looking at 4 and a half hours.  As a younger guy, I can't ask them to pass-well I can but they will not let me often, I can't tell them to hurry up and I basically have to accept it.

I'd rather the clubs concentrate on that rather than the tailoring of people's shorts or the collar on your shirt!

A particularly nasty guy in my club-well known to everyone as being unfriendly and aggresive.  Came up to me and told me off for wheeling one of the wheels of my trolley over the edge of the tee off.  My flat rubber trolley wheel that wouldn't do any damage whatsoever.  It was debatable if I even went over the tee edge and it was by mistake anyway!!  This was the same guy whom I observed play like a snail and repair no pitch marks.

A lot of the time it's all about older guys wanting to talk down to people.  They've made a few quid and love to treat people like dirt.  It's only a small few in my club, but it's still there.

A shame, but that's private golf clubs for you.  But I do realise if you don't have any rules or not enforced, like a municipal, the course is trashed, over played and ruined by the masses.  But again going back to my point, it's not the lack of collars on shirts that is to blame for that!

I dont see why shorts cant be worn, as long as they are above the knee, taylored and are worn with a belt. Equally as smart as trousers if not smarter than some of the golf trousers available on the market.

I dont think anybody would be comfortable in trousers with the temperature today.

Matt,

You will find that most Clubs have the guy who works hard 9-5 and gets a lot of grief from his boss\supervisor, so when he goes to the Club he feels better if he can "Lord" it over anyone. Juniors are the usual target, because more often than not they are better players than him.

TheLyth

Can't argue with that Matt.  The "I've been a member here for 40 years and so I have standing over you" crew, coupled with the "I don't mind myself but you just did XYZ and some people would complain" group are thankfully few and far between now. 

I agree that if clubs made sure that pace of play is maintained, divots and pitchmarks repaired, etc we would all enjoy the game more, as long as they don't take it too far.  I played the Brabazon earlier this year and was first group out so setting the pace.  After 7 holes we were a hole and a half up but the marshall was still following us round on his segway and hassling us to pick up the pace as we were 5 minutes down.  He even called the halfway house to tell them to check our time at the turn.  Mind you, that particular guy is annoying little pain in the ass anyway......

Drew,

It isn't the question of not wearing shorts, it's the fact that most Clubs say that you must wear Knee-high socks with them.

Some years ago a member of Roundhay was talking to the Secretary about not being allowed in the Clubhouse in his Jeans. His response was a classic "My Jeans cost more than everything you are wearing, now where is the logic in the Rule".

TheLyth

Remember that day well Chris, I felt it ruined my special day on what is a sacred course. The problem being what on earth did we have to speed up to???? To me it felt like someone was getting off on what little power they had. But of cause we had to do as we we're told as thats there policy.

True Lyth.  In fact in society as a whole, give someone a chnace of a bit of authority or power, and often it will go to their head.

I try to treat juniors well, since i remember how badly I was treated.  I used to feel uncomfortable at clubs when I was a junior.  Some of the kids now do have pretty bad manners and respect, but you can't help feel it's just society and not theiur fault.  Kids will pretty much mould into whatever you want them to be.

Being forced to play TOO quick is worse than anything! Agree on that.

In fact I agree on all the last posts.  What's happening, are the Golfshake, Jedi mind tricks being played on me to make me comply with the regime

Hi David

Sort of ruins the point of wearing shorts if you have to wear knee high socks with them, personally cant see the problem with wearing sports socks (as long as they're not brown or beige) :-)

Might have to bring in a rule that no milk bottle legs or varicose veins allowed :-)

Picking up on a point made earlier in the thread about the pro's not wearing shorts and also the numerous comments about shirts with collars having to be worn.

I think that all Golf courses even the muni ones should enforce the wearing of shirts with collars, no tracksuit bottoms or jeans etc. Some of the pros now days should smarten up a bit, like Tiger woods to name one. I wouldnt call a T shirt with a slightly higher than normal collar respectable attire.

I do however feel that some of the dress code rules need to be looked at and revised

I actually prefer a strict dress code when playing golf. I'm a member of an 1895 affiliated club and by keeping standards high, heritage is left intact and you have to make the effort.  I think of it as part of preparation before a game.

I would certainly not be considered a snob and those of you that know me would agree i'm sure.  Lets keep the game special and not dilute it to suit the ever annoying youth!

My local Muni had great heritage as a private club until they decided to build the M5 through the middle of it, now its in tatters and thats the only type of golfer that plays there!

Grumpy rant over and out.

I am with you David H. I really cannot believe that players feel the need to play in a garment that is only 2 feet shorter than a pair of trousers stating that it is cooler.

You will never see an Arab in a pair of shorts and they live in hot conditions all year round.

I would certainly not be considered a snob and those of you that know me would agree i'm sure.  Lets keep the game special and not dilute it to suit the ever annoying youth!

That made me laugh.  It's like saying everyone knows I have a cat, and I despise animal cruelty-but lets keep fox hunting, it's a tradition, which I think is rather quaint and those foxes are vile!

 In seriousness, I kind of agree, as I do like traditon in golf.  But you have to admit-it doesn't make a difference what you wear.  It is a kind of snobism and is there to create a barrier and keep the people the commitee wants in the club, and deter 'the youth and oiks".

I think the London club recognises that if it doesn't move on then the game will not progress.  I'd just like to see other issues tackled as a greater priority-I'm not so bothered what people wear.  If a guy dressed as a chicken (to keep the animal theme) played in fron of me-and played quickly and raked tyhe bunker, I'd be happier than being behind some of the slow players we have in our club

I think you will find that the London club will be as strict as anywhere in dress code. You have been misinformed. It is an expensive club in every way.

Perhaps you should play all your golf at Disney, Matt.

The London Club have only relaxed their dress code in the clubhouse Matt, not on the course. 

John, I apologise in advance, I am likely to be wearing shorts for our game tomorrow.  And I want my shots this time round too!

I would certainly not be considered a snob and those of you that know me would agree i'm sure.  Lets keep the game special and not dilute it to suit the ever annoying youth!

Made me chuckle to, will only be a matter of time before there arent any snobby old farts left, only the annoying youth :-) it will only get worse as im sure everybody has seen the latest fashion of wearing your trousers under your arse. hopefully that will die out soon!!!!!!

I am with you David H. I really cannot believe that players feel the need to play in a garment that is only 2 feet shorter than a pair of trousers stating that it is cooler.

Does that mean that you wear trousers on the beech John?

You will never see an Arab in a pair of shorts and they live in hot conditions all year round.

Correct me if im wrong but here but I think you will find that most of the clothing worn in arab states is tied into religous beliefs. Plenty of Africans wear shorts to keep cool.

This topic is definately a controversial one with many diferent opinions

Does that mean that you wear trousers on the beech John?

I might if I was up a Beech tree but on a Beach I usually wear swimming trunks, a custom that was handed down to me 72 years ago and has not changed that much.

Correct me if im wrong but here but I think you will find that most of the clothing worn in arab states is tied into religous beliefs. Plenty of Africans wear shorts to keep cool.

Clothing in Arab states dates back to when they were all bedouin tribes and loose long clothing was worn to keep cool. As the Muslim religion is a fairly new one, it is fairly safe to say that the clothing predated any religious cnotations.

Africa on the other hand has  a more temperate climate and shorts are widely worn, probably introduced when we had servicemen supporting our colonial aspirations.

I am a traditionalist, Drew and proud of it. What you do is entirely your business, but do not decry those of us who are still trying to maintain standards. Sloppy dress, sloppy attitude.

Ha ha good one John.  Perhaps you should stick to the old people's home pal.  Go and have a knock round the crazy golf course with your Rockflite Z-Balatas. 

I was misinformed by Sky Sports News.  They clearly said that the dress regulations had been relaxed and anything goes.  They shwoed people in football shirst and the like.  It was completely misleading.

Everything you say John leads me to believe you are one of the snobby old school brigade.  The complete give away is how you close your post with "it's a very expensive club in every way".

What has that got to do with whether your shorts are tailored and your shirt having a collar.  That's pure snobbism-keep a strict dress code, pretend it's traditon, and we can all hit our Z-Balatas round and keep out the rif raf and young oiks-Taly ho!!!

Matt, I am already in the Old peoples home but you are obviously just spoling for a fight when you say that Z-Balatas are a hard ball, they are not and I have many years of experience with them.

You just cannot trust the media in any form,Sky are no better than the rest of them.

Why you should imagine that expensive equates to snobbery I do not know, you're a Liverpool lad, why not try and get a game at Hoylake and tell me how you get on turning up in the modern version of golfwear.

The emphasis in golf now is how far does it go, balls included, myself, being an old fart appreciates the qualities of a ball that was designed to be controllable. Only those who have this ability will recognise its qualities, the fact that you don't, answers my question.

Matt,

Chill out!!

Its not snobbism as you put it, Its purely the club saying these are the standards we expect from you(the punter) as you expect similar standards from the golf club that we pay hundreds if not thousands of pounds a year to join.

By having a dress code and adhering to it, it shows that you respect the club,you take respect in yourself, and therefore everyone is happy.

Last weekend at west mids g.c. there were 3 groups of 4 balls behind us a couple were in jeans(god knows how the got on the course) and as we were putting out on the 16th they thought it was hilarious to smash into each others buggies 10ft away on the 15th tee.

I'm no snob by any means, i was brought up on a council estate, covered in tattoo's and worked in Vehicle manufacturing since i was 20. But jeans on a course and loutish behavour from guy's who looked older than me??? Is not acceptable.

i dont mind shorts but i hate really bright trousers.

Covered in tattoo's and brought up on a council estate if I'd known that I would not have invited you play at Donnington Grove...........

Confesseion, I to have a tattoo only one its on my kn#b it spells out that world famous welsh railway station ........ "what you mean Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch"................
.

No Rhyl.

As i recall it wasn't an invite, more throwing a line out for bait.

John, maybe you should check your posts are word perfect before you point out one of my spelling mistakes. Correction noted about the arab clothing although not sure you can really compare it to wearing trousers. At no point have I attempted to decry anything to you John, if anything it is you that is up on your soap box announcing that shorts are sloppy attire.

Surprised you can remember having that tattoo Dave, been a while since you've seen it.....  

I was also brought up on a council estate and am covered in tattoos (well I have seven with a few more planned).  The estate I was brought up on is in Hull, voted the second worst city to live in Britain (behind Middlesborough).  I'm a time-served apprentice who has worked their way up from the shop floor to where I am and consider myself very much of the working class. 

I relax at home in jeans and tee-shirt, or three-quarter sports trousers in the summer.  However, I'm now sat at my desk at work in a shirt and tie. Why?  Because it's the appropriate dress code for where I am. 

Matt,

Glad your taking my advice a while back to chill but it seems very short lived!

From what you have described of your club doesn't sound very appetising & if it were me I'd leave & join somewhere else rather than stick around & have my games spoiled?

We've had this debate over dress codes many a time (do a forum search) & the top & bottom of it is if you don't agree with the club's rules then don't play there, it's that simple!!

John.

Drew, being an old man with poor eyesight I make many mistakes when typing my posts, but I usually spot them later on and edit them, as I don't like to see bad spelling. You deserved the one I spoke of because of your attitude. Get over it.

I don't have a soapbox, just opinions, like you, Drew. It does not bother me one bit whether you agree with them or not and shorts are sloppy attire on a golf couirse, in my opinion.

Yeh I know your working class, but do you know how you determine whether your working class or middle class?

Enthrall me Mr Ley.  I know where I'm from but where am I now?

Probably on the way to a golf course

i dont mind shorts but i hate really bright trousers

Blimey i'd better watch what i wear to events in future

When you enter someones living room and it's is too small for the  TV  their working class.........................quilty as charged your Honour I have to breath in to get passed my 50" plasma HD. Ha ha..

You and Simon

How are you Santo? Not heard from you for a while bud.

Dave,

Something to do with getting out of the bath?

TheLyth

37" LCD in 20' by 14' living room.  Looks like I'm middle class then!

I was told it was, when you have to wipe your feet on the way out at your place Dave

I cant be working class anyway, as my wife owns six buggies don't you know!

Defo working class Mr Perry , and its Baff David not Bath!

Mr Flood,

I have never come accross a non municipal that doesn't have dress rules, snobbism, elitism-whatever you want to call it.  It's just what happens when you have a club that is allowed to make it's own rules and select who gets in and who doesn't.

To be fair my club isn't bad at all.  It is quite appetising!  Every club seems to have it's pros and cons.  My clubs is slow play if you hit it at the wrong time, local scallies on the course inj the evening and a bit of a click of members (like the golfshake click ;0))

As for the "if you don't like it don't play" argument.  Well isn't that kind of daft?  I mean we would never progress if we just said that to everything.

Nice to see you're back to course some more trouble John boy.

How is having a debate looking for more trouble Matt? Told you before you need to chill out a bit.

And on the debate of if you dont like it then dont play there, this is the stance the clubs take so we have no choice but to do the same as the club will not be bothered if we dont agree in any case.

Paul,

couldn't have said it better myself.

Mr C, if I'm causing (note the spelling of cause) trouble with what I posted then what were you doing with your posts 

I stand by what I said. If you don't like the rules then don't play there, it's not daft because eventually you will find a club that suits your criteria, that is progress. Just because you haven't come across a culb which you 'think' has snobbery etc doesn't mean you won't find one?

There's no clique (note spelling) on here just a bunch of like minded people who have built up friendships over the years.

I wasn't knocking your club just basing my opinion on your comments as you have moaned quite a bit about the other members, rules etc.

Cheers laddy.

As mentioned before, the debate on what golf clubs require of their members / guests / visitors has been discussed by many before. The resounding conclusion is that they have the choice to make what rules they like and we, the golfers, have the choice of conforming or taking our business else where. There is not a right or wrong ... you just make your own choice.

Matt, reading back over this thread, no one seems to be saying your opinion is wrong, just different to theirs. It is your arguements against their opinions which they are saying is wrong.