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Matt Hargraves

Looking for some opinons from you guys, basically to back up what im thinking. I started out with the mazuno mx17's started getting consistant and my handicap came down to 24 then i got some mx52's with riffle 6.0 shafts in and my handicap has got stuck and i dont feel that im improving that much. Now when i got them i didnt know how stiff the shafts were, I thought they were just a bit stiffer than normally.  Been having a chat about my clubs to the new pro and after my lesson today i showed him my club and he was shocked that the old pro sold me them. And says that they arnt doing me any favoirs, its not the heads but the shafts that are shafting me. there ment for around 100mph swing speeds and he thinks im more near 85 with out testing me properly.
So now 2 questions should i change clubs or try to persist with the ones i have.
If i do i like thin heads but i want something that will help me so i would go with think ones if this is best. I think that last time i started to get a bit a head of myself and want to shape shots instead of trying to be consistant.

The pro has give me the ping i10 and a  taylormade burner both with regular shafts in to try. 

John Pettitt

Martin Devlin

Hi Matt

It all depends on whether you have taken your club head spead from your driver or your irons.

I presume you are talking about your driver speed and if so you really need to change your clubs or the shafts. All golfers need the shaft to flex during the downswing and with a stiff shaft like the 6.0 you would be inclined to block the ball right and loose distance.

John Pettitt

Martin Devlin

You obviously don't know the dynamics of the golf club or you would not make such a comment.

You just stick to persimmon wood John.

John Pettitt

Martin Devlin

No John that is a fact, If you have never been taught golf then that is your downfall.

Because the flex in the shaft is too stiff there is no kick at impact hence the reason the blade stays open rather than square at impact.

Logic and physics spring to mind.

Nick Thomson

A stiff shaft will cause a push as it does not "kick" in time. As your body and hands will come through to impact, the shaft will clause the clubhead to stay behind the swing and not release. Leaving the club face open leading to a block.

If someone said to me they were hitting the ball right that is the first thought that would occur to me.

David Ley has a handicap of 7, so more than likely has enough clubhead speed or loads the shaft enough to work it correctly.

John Pettitt

I see you have recruited your top salesman to try and back up your ridiculous argument.

I quite often use a stiff shafted driver and three wood and I never block them, but then I have a feel for a swing, something you obviously do not have.

Listening to you two is like listening to Bill and Ben the flowerpot men. Which one of you is the puppet.

So that is the first thing you would think of if someone asked you why they are hitting it straight right is it, Nick? had you not given a thought  it might be  for another reason, like getting the head in front of the ball at impact, as that will produce the same thing.

Every fault in a golf swing is diferent for everyone, no one is the same and that is why it is essential to see the fault before one makes a diagnosis. You Nick are not qualified at all to make a concerted judgement as you are not skilled enough yourself. Martin, is an enigma we know nothing about, but I will say that every bit of advice he has offered has been incorrect.

Nick Thomson

John your argument is laughable.

Just because I am not very good at playing golf, does not mean i know nothing about the swing or golf clubs. It is my living to know about both, and to try and mock me in the way you have is a disgrace.

Granted a variety of things can cause a push, but for somone to be doing it consistently then too stiff a shaft is a fair assumtion. Also your lack of knowledge of current clubs means you dont have much to back your argument up.

David Brown

 '''You Nick are not qualified at all to make a concerted judgement as you are not skilled enough yourself.''''

Jonh are you qualified to make any judgement are you skilled enough??

Martin Devlin

You must differ from every pro in the country then John but you always do (you know best eh)

No you do not, Not unless you disagree with every teaching method.

Nick is right in what he said and if you disagree then you are making yourself look ridiculous. A 22 handicap golfer knowing more about the golf swing than you makes you look foolish.

At least you gave me a chuckle tonight John.

Dennis Visser

Now now guys, I'm sure youre all adult enough to not make this into a personal attack over this lovely bank holiday weekend.

If you do, I will edit accordingly and delete if necessary.

Dennis

David Brown

Martin Devlin

Dennis.

Why did you not say something against John when he was so iggnorant to my post on BANDITS.

Dennis Visser

Hi Martin,

I post as I see things and my post above was to all involved in the thread. Please point out to a mod if you feel something should be done in a particular thread.

Ps. I cant see how someone can be ignorant in an online forum but that is me being pedantic

Martin Devlin

Dennis

Showing ignorance is showing a lack of knowledge whether it be face to face or online and i'm not being pedantic

Patrick Bourke

 I am a bit confused by all of the above as I have a very flexible driver shft, regular dynamic gold in my 3-s/w irons and v stiff shafts in my nike s/v 56* & 60* (still dynamic gold) I hit my driver straight but if I try a stiff shaft I hook the sh*t out of it. I hit my sand iron a clear 20yds further tan my 60* nike (which is why I keep it in my bag) but the nike is infinitely more accurate and a valuable tool for me.

 Now I can't give you the technicalities of this but it's like that for me.

John Pettitt

I am quite sure you are confused, Patrick, as am I. Whilst agreeing that certain flexes of shafts are more suited to different players, that does not mean that one cannot strike a ball well with a shaft that is supposed to be not suitable.

I do realise that the Scots are experts in the field of shafts as the ones running my country have well and truly shafted us.

Wayne Santorini

spot on John, but not for long the voters will sort the government out

Christopher Watmore

To add my 2 Cents to this topic, having spent several hours stood on a driving range trying to custom fit customers into clubs I have made several observations.

My experience is that if a golfer is consistantly pushing a ball to the right its probably 8/10 down to the shaft being too stiff and a softer flex being required. Only a couple of times will it actually turn out to be due to lie angle being far too flat.

Its also something I am experiencing myself now that I don't play as much and as a result my swing is less grooved and much slower that my shafts are all too stiff. The difference being for me I see now point in going down the road and expense now of changing it so just make the decision to aim further to the left with each club now and play with the problem.

John Pettitt

i disagree, Chris, the flex of the shaft has no bearing on where the ball is going to go. If the guy is pushing it all the time then he has a swing problem, which can be sorted in minutes.

Nick Thomson

Good to see you can admit when you have been proven wrong by FOUR people who work in the industry. Although im sure you will continue to argue your point.

And your added remarks about the government are pathetic and stupid, and are obviously trying just to get a reaction. Of course its ALL Gordon Brown's fault. Lets give David Cameron a go, he clearly has the answer for just about everything.

Wayne, as a forum moderator should you have not deleted his inappropriate post, or just to busy laughing it up with your bum chum.

Martin Devlin

Totally agree Christopher

Ignore John's comments as they are truly ridiculous. Anyone saying that the shaft has no bearing on where the ball is going obviously has very limited knowledge of the modern game and equipment.

Shafts are one of the biggest contributors to a persons game today, If i was given a shaft that suited me (stiff)  you could stick on any head (preferably blade style) and i would hit the ball exactly the same. Give me a regular shaft and i would hook the ball terribly. Now i could play with that hook, but why would i want to!!! when i can hit much straighter shots with a stiff shaft. common sense really.

In your argument John we should all play with the same shafts and go for more lessons.

John Pettitt

Martin, you are not the player you are claiming to be if you would hook a regular shaft around your neck, In fact you knowledge of the game is pretty weak, taking everything into consideration.

My local Pro at the range I use occasionally is a very fine striker and I asked him one day whether or not my soft regular driver shaft is the cause of my poor driving, as I said that I tend to hit it hard, when perhaps I shouldn't. Of course you can hit it hard he replied and took my driver and creamed it down the end of the range, so that tells me that he had the ability to feel the shaft and swing accordingly, something you have just admitted you are incapable of doing.

To Nick I say, be your own man and stop listening to these idiots in your shop as their knowledge is poor in respect of how this game is played. Equipoment weill never make you a good player as a good player can play with anything.

You mentiohed Gordon Brown, not me, which show you have a little intelligence to have worked it out that he was one of those to whom I was referring. As to David Cameron, he will be as much use as a tortoise with mud flaps. This country is in urgent need of a very right wing government to undo all the rubbish that has been heaped on us these past 11 years. Strange how the Scots are allowed to have a National party but us English are denied the right to this.

Martin Devlin

Rubbish as usual John.

You will never understand!!!! CONSISTENCY

Ask your pro or even better print this off and show him. If he is any kind of pro he will try to explain in laymans terms to suit your needs, but i think you would disagree with your own shadow so this might not help.

John Pettitt

Martin, the rubbish is coming from you. Now I do realise that you are one amazing golfer and I very much doubt that you have ever blocked or pushed a ball in your life, unlike Tiger Woods, who seems to make a habit of it lately.

The question is, if you did, would you say to yourself that your shaft is too stiff, would you say this to Tiger Woods. NO, of course you wouldn't, as you know it is a load of tripe.

Martin Devlin

I never said that John.

I never blame my clubs and of course i block the ball which is down to my swing but you are navigating away from the point because you know you were wrong.

I shall e-mail Tiger and say that he is better using regular shafts because it will be more beneficial to his game.

Nick Thomson

Correct, John. Technology won't make me a better player, only practice and playing regularly will do that. But correctly fitted, suitable clubs will help. Without question.

I'm man enough to make my own mind up, and I speak from my own experiences and knowledge. So don't try and paint me out to be an idiot. Again.

As I said earlier, there are four people that work in the industry that have said the same thing. Maybe just take that opinion on board, even if you dont agree with it. Everyone will hit bad shots, but i guarantee that if I gave most players too stiff a shaft, the majority of poor shots would be a push. 

If you want to talk politics PM me.

John Pettitt

It is you who is doing the evading and I am most certainly not wrong in hat I have said., Martin. you and your friends have made it plain that a stiff shaft will produce a push or block and I have disagreed and stated my reasons.

I could use stiff shafts without blocking or pushing but I would lose distance and that is something I cannot afford. Listening to an expert in cluib fitting has me now kitted out wqith a Ping G 10 soft regular shaft and it goes all over the place, right left and centre. I am not blaming the shaft as I have seen other use my driver to great effect.

Perhaps Tiger would welcome your expertise as he certainly needs some driving tuition at the moment.

Working in the industry does not give you knowledge about the golf swing, only about the many different clubs that are on the market for the dedicated to spend their money on.

Make up your mind, Nick, earlier you said consistently and now you are saying the majority.

How on earth you can fit someone up with the right shaft in a shop amazes me.

In the winter, on occasion, I am not allowed a buggy because the course is maybe too wet. So if I wish to play I usually play using my playing partners clubs as I am unable to pull a trolley or carry, but can just about manage to walk round, I play with his clubs which happen to be, Mizuno irons of the blade type with stiff shafts and a Nike driver, I think it is a 599 square thing with a stiff shaft also.

I have no trouble whatsoever using his clubs and I hit them pretty straight but with loss of distance to what I get from my own. Now I am a 72 year old with very little strength left in my body, so either I am a lucky player or my swing is pretty sound.

Whilst I agree that having the right shaft for ones speed of swing is better for one, it is hardly going to make the difference you are attempting to claim.

I used a ten year olds club down the range last year sometime and the shaft was really flexible with a big heavy head, it was a nine iron and I had to really stoop low to swing at the ball, but I hit is perfectly straight and further than my own nine iron.

I can play with anything, can you.

Nick Thomson

Don't be so pedantic. What I said was the same thing, just worded it differently.

You are basing all your opinions on YOU, whereas I'm basing mine on a large cross section of golfers, of all handicaps and ages. I have stated my argument and backed it up. Your opinion is far to subjective to be reasonable.

Please stop waffling on.

Martin Devlin

Chris, the flex of the shaft has no bearing on where the ball is going to go.

Whilst I agree that having the right shaft for ones speed of swing is better for one

Make up your mind John, I think contradiction springs to my mind.

Matt Collins

The club fitters seem to prescribe a stiff shaft based on your swing speed-I think this can be misleading.  I fight a cut with my driver and my swing speed is about 97mph on the monitor.  So they insist on a stiff shaft for me.  Yet the stiff shaft just causes me to banana it out right most of the time-with my irons I can control a stiff shaft, but with woods I need that extra flexibility to square the club face a little extra. Im pretty straight once i have the REG flex driver in my hand.

Some of these club custom fitters don't know what they are doinjg, the guy from American Golf insisted a stiff flex shaft would straighten and lengthen my drives-despite my protests.  In the end I had to change the club for the one I would of picked in the first place.

So be careful with stiff shafts if you have a tendancy to cut/fade, even if you generate good club head speed you may be better with a REG flex shaft.

Paul Williams

Been away for a while but lets put this into perspective, John Pettitt questioned the post of Martin with the right to do so, and was not abusive, to which martin you ended your reply by saying stick to persimmon woods, for one which was rude, and got the thread of balance, and two are you saying that in the days of persimmon woods a block to the right was down to poor technique due to the lack of shaft options available to said player??

Your all just as bad, willing to jump down each others throat at the slightest wind change!!!

I'm getting pretty pissed off with it, and my stay away was down to guilt on my side in case i was inciting the rows but still they continue.

To all that work in the industry you must accept people are allowed an opinion be it right or wrong and able to express it without the piss being taken out of them.

Enough is enough, F###### GROW UP!

When i stumble across golfshake it was great, you could state you opinion and all tho banter was given it was friendly, but now it just seems nasty.

I for one will honour my commitment to the west mids qualifier and all that entails but after that..... f### ##

A very annoyed Paul!

Paul Williams

To put my argument into perspective,

In my line of work, if a customer can to me with a faulty indicator, and i said it was down to a bad earthing fault. That customer said " i disagree, i think its the bulb as the incorrect wattage" and i said look mate you don't know what your on about, "stick to scotch locks" I'd get the bullet!"

There's no respect shown at all, just jumped straight down the guys throat.

The fact that golfshake allows this is even more a joke!!!

Then you wonder why in other threads you get "try so & so's golf school" due to the belittling on previous posts!

ITS GETTING OUT OF HAND, AND THE MORE IT GOES ON, THE MORE CORE MEMBERS ARE USING THE SITE LESS AND LESS,which will only have a negative effect on the site itself???????

John Pettitt

Paul Williams

John,

I was not getting at you, but had to included everyone as a wake up call.

I was hoping the members would scroll back to the start, and see where you, politely i might add, Addressed Martin, saying you disagreed, then preceded to explain why!

In my eyes thats exactly the way it should be done, so i can understand you get a little annoyed with the comments that followed John.

You know my thoughts on this matter, just so annoyed that we now on the forums cannot disagree to a comment without the p#ss being taken out us, in a snide manner because we're not working in the industry so therefore have no right to an opinion!

Wayne Santorini

**Wayne, as a forum moderator should you have not deleted his inappropriate post, or just to busy laughing it up with your bum chum. **

Nick why would I delete his post and not everyone else's??

As for your personal comment above, just be careful as it could lead to you being taken off the site.

David Homer

This is a great site and I love talking about, reading about, watching and playing golf. As I am sure you all do.

Considering that we all have a common interest, i.e. GOLF. Can we lay off the insults.  If a user gives an opinion with which you disagree, then do so. All other users can see both perspectives and therefore there is no further need to go banging on about it.

Wayne Santorini

Totally agree with you David H, I just wish others would agree to disagree also.

Living in a democracy allows us the freedom of speech, but doesn't permit personal abuse.