Water In Bunkers

Two questions for you.

1)  What is the ruling if your ball lands in a bunker that is full of water?

I do mean full!  no sand showing at all.

I've been told by another player that you drop the ball outside the bunker but you would incur a one shot penalty.

Now I find this rather harsh but golf has some odd rulings!

2)  If the bunker has water in it, but there is an area of sand big enough to play a shot from, do you drop the ball or are you allowed to place the bunker?

I've always dropped the ball but this means you normally get a plugged ball!

Russ

I'm not sure of the ruling for the 1st question, but for the second one you have to drop the ball. 

Usual rules for a drop, nearest point of relief not closer to the hole.  With this in mind if you can drop the ball onto the side of the bunker so it rolls then it will not plug.

Andrew, I've done that but the way the sand was in the bunker it just plugged, no roll!

Russ

As per Kev above, we agree that if the ball or your stance is in water then you get a free drop back along a line so the bunker is still in your line of play.  If you are in the bunker but your ball or your stance is not in the water you play it as normal. 

No relief from bunkers. I thought the ruling if the entire bunker was full of water was you take a one shot penalty from where you played your last shot?

Paul

It this was a major comp then I'm sure they would go around the course and mark them all as ground under repair, but for normal play they don't!

Maybe they should put a notice up in the pro shop when it's this bad.

Russ

I don't know if they still do it but Ganton GC have a novel idea.

On the  right of the 9th fairway is a deep bunker that fills with water. It used to have Yellow Stakes around it and so was covered by the Rules. NO WATER - a Bunker, WATER - A Water Hazard.

Shouldn't you be having your name down to represent the Glorious North in April David?

Depends where I am, could be Scotland, Florida or Yorkshire, don't know at the moment.

Agreed Kev, it can only be a local rule. Although I think I'm wrong in my earlier post about dropping back where you played your original shot and I think the ruling is now that the ball can be dropped as far back as you like behind the bunker so that you have to play over it with a one stroke penalty.

Paul

So, by frigging with the rules, anyone in a bunker can declare their ball unplayable and drop it behind the bunker for a one shot penalty.  I could've used this on Sunday morning on a par three where my tee shot was very high and cam down straight into a bunker.  When I got to the bunker, it was plugged that deep the top of my ball was below the level of the sand.  I knew I wouldn't get out of the bunker in one so I just made sure I got it out of the plug.  Unfortunately I left it right up against the lip and had to take another two to get out of the bunker.  With hindsight, I should've declared it unplayable and dropped it within two club lengths for a one stroke penalty and ensured I was in a good position to get it out first time. 

Almost right Paul.

Deeming a ball unplayable in a bunker allows you the two club-length drop IN THE BUNKER but if you want to come out of it, you have to go back to the origional position. (As you said).

Rule 28 covers this, Chris and only option (a) gets you out of the bunker and that shot has to be played from where the original was struck. Options (b) and (c) mean the ball has to be dropped in the bunker as well as the pnealty for declarig-ng it unplayable.

If the bunker is full of water Rule 25 allows you to drop outside it for a shot penalty.

Myself, I have made it policy that I try and avoid all bunkers at all times and because I am usually quite successful at this, when I actually do unfortunately get in one then I find that I am not very good at getting out of them.

To a stranger my style of golf must come across as either amusing or pretty strange as I plot my way down the hole, aiming away from all the trouble till I am at a distance that I know I can hit the green. Those whio have played with me have been too polite to laugh, but I know one day someone will bring the subject up as to why.

It sounds to me like you play to your limits and use your strengths.

Nothing wrong in that and a lot of younsters could learn a lot from it.

To name drop, Tom Watson once told me that he hit the big drawhook off the Tee because it widened his target.

Now there was a player who I really admired. A great striker and a great chanpion. I once had his usual caddie when he was in the UK, Alfie Fyldes, caddying for me in a Eurogolf Pro-Am competition at Royal Brikdale. My Pro then was a certain Jimmy Hulme from Gullane, another good player, who once led the open after a couple of rounds.

I seem to have lost all my strength, David. My tee shots are awful, to say the least and if it were not for the fact that I get better, the closer to the hole I get, then I think I would have packed it all in by now.

Apparently my tee shot problem is because I fail to get through the ball to a finish, I tend to hit and stop. too much right hand. I don't suffer this problem with an iron shot.

A lot of high handicappers, myself included, have a habit of just trying to get it as close to the green as possible as quickly as possible instead of doing as you do John.  I do this because I'm quite accurate with my short irons and wedges so I'm comfortable attacking the pin with these.  My mid and long irons tend to be accurate from a yardage perspective but a little errant direction wise.  For this reason, I'd much rather go driver-9 iron than 3 iron-5 iron as I have more chance of being on the green for two.  Whilst it may not be obvious, I feel that this is a case of me playing to my strengths as well. 

What little I saw of your swing, Chris, tellls me that you are not playing to your strengths or you would be scoring far better than what you currently are. Without altering you swing at all, just by listening to what I tell you to do on the way round the course will see you shoot into the 80's.

If I get called a bandit on March 15th John you better stick up for me!!!

I told you, pay attention and I will bring you in as the winner. Your natural power with my thinking will prove uinbeatable. You should not be scoring like you are currently doing. Ask Paul Cook and he will tell you that I altered nothing in his swing, just told him how to play each shot.

John

Have you given in and tried a 460cc with a flexy shaft?

David, I think this may be my problem, the giving in I mean. My eldest son who is built like a brick sh**house with arms like popeye can hit a 1 iron off the deck so high it almost goes into orbit.  He said that I ought to try these game improvement clubs, so I listened and stopped using my maruman conductor Pro irons and got a secondhand set of Callaway X14's which I like very much and also put in the cupboard my persimmon woods, but have not found a metal wood that I could shape, and as I always attempt to put a shape on my shots you can see why I am struggling.

Interestingly enough I took the persimmons out of the cupboard, blew the dust off and took them down the range when I went there to give a bit of coaching to Dennis Visser. I was quite surprised that I hit them at all, but in fact I hit them pretty solidly in comparison to the G10 460cc soft regular shaft that I wasted £189 on. I must have been mad.

Incidently I made a mistake in another post to you, it was not Rodney Foster but Martin Foster from Yorkshire that I played with in Portugal.

Over the years I have mixed with Pro's, Am's and the Ladies of Yorkshire Golf and mixing up Rodney and Martin is a common thing.

You must also have crossed paths with John Yeo and he is a sad loss to Golf in the South West.

John Yeo won the West of England Open amateur Strokplay over 4 rounds at Westward Ho, cannot remember exact year probably about 1970 but I did come fifth that particular year, my best ever showing in the event. It always destroyed me for the season with the foul weather we usually had to play in. I was not aware that he had passed on. I have lost touch with everyone from the West Country as I moved to london in 1986.

Played against him in both foursomes and singles in County matches and was not even aware that he had turned professional. He was about 10 years younger than me if I remember.

Just for you John.

http://www.pga.info/News/40875732.htm

Thank you, David, that is really sad, only 62. I was right about the South West, 1970, I always thought that he played out of Carlyon Bay but I may be wrong. A great course if you ever get the chance. on a cliff top, but very nice.

Cornwall were not the strongest of counties, a bit like Somerset, but I have had some good matches against them.

Are you from that part of the world as you appear to have good knowledge of the west country.

No John, I'm a 'Tyke' through and through.

I listen to what people say and then talk about things I think they may like. You spoke about The West Country so I added what I knew. John Yeo and I attended the same PGA School in 1977 and I knew he was from that area.

A nice person and an exceptionally fine player. I never knew he turned Pro though.