North vs South 2009 - thoughts/suggestions ?

The 3rd year of the events see it being hosted in the South for the first time.

So far suggestions have been

Donnington grove

South Winchester

Wycwood

Pine Ridge

Mannings Heath

Donnington grove was a lovely course for the Southern cup - it played very long due to the wind though! South Winchester, I played with a few guys with golfshake and really enjoyed it.

Jonny - Bearwood is a great course, might struggle to get a block tee time though.

Collingtree Park is excellent although with all the houses running around the course/estate I'm not sure about handicaps above 24 ?

Regards, Darren.

I don't know any of the courses down there so my comments are purely logistical thoughts. 

Belton Woods was a little off the beaten track.  Somewhere with reasonable access, especially for those driving down the same day, would make life much easier.  And avoiding the need to negotiate the M25 for as many as possible would be a huge advantage. 

Some courses are better suited to matchplay than others and that should be a consideration IMO.  Also, I think the course should reward good all-round play rather than the ability to slap it 300 yards.  I'm reasonably long with the driver, but I'd much rather that having big shoulders did not give me an unfair advantage over the shorter hitters - that's not what golf's about. 

Oh, and can you make sure that it's not between 22nd May and 8 June as I'll be in the lazing on a white sand beach next to the clear Carribean seas of St Maarten.......

Liked Donnington Grove, I thought it was a pretty fair course for a comp - slightly wacky accomodation but would it hold enough people?  South Winchester for a comp?  Not sure, I think it may be a slog for a lot of people.

Only thinking of the Southern softies, obviously. 

There's only one course on St Maarten Jonny so that would make selecting one much easier!

SToke by Nayland is a good course and is home to a Europro Tour event every year, so is of good calibre. I would think that the Northern Champs would like to stay overnight as a good trek down. So numbers staying would need to be considered.

Anyone thought of Whittlebury Park. A magnificent set of golf courses and A1 afcilities. Would be ideal for N v S.

If not far enough south then would make ideal location for 2009 Golfshake Order of Merit venue.

Highly recommend this course for any comp or anyone who wishes to play a quality venue. Also holds a PGA Europro tour event every year

Oooh, Stoke by Nayland - first course I ever played on.  Not far from my old stomping ground so would probably have to go down for 4 or 5 days....  

Oli, It's d/bs Matchplay like the ryder cup, Players who stopped overnight  looked at paying about £100. Come on the day £35/£40.

Basically Fourball format off 3/4 handicaps.

You must choose but choose wisely grasshopper!

Watford, Lee

Lee,

Do a search on the posts for North vs south (n v s) as this was discussed last year to some lengthy debate).

John.

Draw a line between the wash and Bristol, civilisation is above that

Lee

Darren has kindly drawn the divide on his map above

Lee,

After this debate last year I posted the note below.

"Meriden is traditionally the middle of the country.  However, the BBC worked with ordanance survey and found that the theoretical centre, including all islands, is just outside Fenny Drayton in Warwickshire, about 11 miles North.  The grid reference is 36373.66, 96143.05.  For the engineers out there, this would be the centre of gravity of the country assuming it was a two dimensional flat mass.  Perhaps this should be taken as the measure. 

In this case, if an east-west line was drawn from there then Birmingham is just in the south with Lowestoft and Aberystwyth and Wolverhampton just in the north, along with Peterborough and Norwich. 

However, I firmly believe it's where you are born, not where you live.  Unless of course your granny is Irish which means you have the choice....."

Based on that, you put a line east to west that bisects Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth, goes just south of Peterborough, just north of Nuneaton, follows the M6 as it goes across the top of Birmignham (putting Birmingham in the South and Wolverhampton and Walsall in the North) and extends out through Wales with Newtown just in the South reaching the coast at the mouth of the River Dyfi.  I've got a map of it but haven't got a clue how to add it in. 

I like Martins idea of getting on a championship course so that it matches the high standard of play on the day!!

Stoke by Nayland is a lovely course, also close to where I grew up!

...keep the ideas coming guys.

You a carrot cruncher too Luke?  Where was you brung up?

Tudor Park - Marriot Course in Kent.  Maidstone I think..

Stoke by Nayland looks a bit of a pig to get to.  Anyway we can't play there.  There's too much water on the course......

That may be true Chris, most places in the east are hard to get to!

Tim, I was brought up in a little place between Ipswich and Bury, most of my family are from Sudbury and stoke by nayland way.

Fancy that Luke, never had you down as one of them. From Colchester originally myself, had a girlfriend in Stoke who's Mum was a member at the Club - my first ever round was there with the pro who was their lodger.  Ever played Gosfield?

No, never played Gosfield, any good?

How far we going south? This side of the smoke would be nice. Or somewhere down the M5.

I thought traditionally that you went from the north into the south and vice versa when you crossed the River Trent which means I live about three miles in the north.  However as Chris rightly points out it has got to be where you are born that decides whether you are a northerner or a southerner.  As many of the people round here still point out to me from my accent, "Your not from round here are you me duck."

Try telling the North team 2008 captain that its where he was born that dictates the team he should join

I think the course should be picked with location and somewhere to stay being a big factor.

Find a course with a couple of hotels and a travelodge nearby, this gives the people attending a choice of prices.

So if you can find a very good course with good access via the motorway network and 'A' roads, then a good selection of digs.

This should ensure the right conditions for a great event.

Russ

I hope you don't consider us Northerners your cousins Kev.  Don't Southerners marry their cousins?  Now you're a nice guy and everything but.........

Chris, 2nd cousins twice removed...................

To be honest I don't think it matters what part of the country we play this event.

Most of the people who live above Birmingham/Leicester would probably have to stay overnight, if they didn't then it would be a long drive.

The main thing I think is to be fair to all involved, if we have an event in the South this year then next year we should have one in the North, and I don't mean Birmingham as North. Then maybe the year after that we can have a Midlands event.

If people can car share and then split the cost of a travelodge room between them they should be able to cover the cost for this event.

Good luck finding the venue.

Russ

Ok I have read all of the coments on this thread but I really can't see why these matches have to be played in the south, if we play in the middle-ish of the country then most people can make it, ok some will have a longish drive including myself and my partner Robbie, but not all of us can stay overnight.

It should be played in the South because that's what was agreed at the end of the last event.  Somewhere like Wokefield would be good, the venue is certainly big enough to house everyone.  Donnington Grove wouldn't be able to accomodate everyone at the hotel but it's not far from the town where ther's bound to be alternative lodgings.

Surprised no-one has started thinking of captains yet..

Brocket Hall would be fun.

Chartham Park in Surrey is nice.

You could go into the big smoke and play Richmond Park.

Selsdon Park has a nice hotel often has good deals

Any course that has water should be struck from the list immediately, especially if that water is on the 18th........

How about a nice links course to sort the men from the boys?

Princes in sandwich.

I have spoken to my pro and he would recommend Collingtree Park. Any thoughts anyone?

Thats not really in the south though.

Martin see my note above re Collingtree. Cracking course but due to housing estate, wentworth esque like, it's not safe for higher handicappers

 Played it recently and fantastic if you fancy a game there let me know, only 50 mins down the M1 for us.

Yep as Danny says not really South

I'm with Santo on this.  Much as I felt the pain of being the entertainment on the 18th at Belton Woods, the ability to overlook the finishing hole with several close match ups coming in and a close overall contest really added to the atmosphere. 

So what do we feel is required: -

OK, so which courses meet those requirements?

Oooh, mini N v S in Portugal - does mean it'll be Marshall against the rest of us but I'm sure he's man enough.....

Nothing to do with my birthplace, originally an Essex boy by birth, but proud to play f't'north.  Nothing better than whooping a couple of Southern softies

I don't why you northern chappies are chuntering on about next years venue ,Whats it got to do with YOU!!

silvermere would be excellent. Great finishing holes. Not far from M25.

Lee, North had 18 players last year - the South probably had one...

Tim was that 2007 ? 

This year was 32 in each team total of 64 players.

Regards, Darren.

You're right Darren, although as I carried Wayne around it felt like we had 3 on our team!

Just researching suggestions but consensus seems to be somewhere close/inbetween M1/M40/M4 close to M25 to give the North team good transport routes in.  I need to research the idea of balcony/terrace overlooking 18t but list so far from notes above and some work by Wayne is

So far :

wokefield

Gatton Manor

Brocket Hall

HERTFORDSHIRE EN10 7PY

Lamerwood

Silveremere

BUCKINGHAMSHIRE UB9 5BG

STOCKS HP23 5RX

AYLESBURY HP17 8QQ

CHILTERN FOREST HP22 5NQ

HARPENDEN COMMON AL5 1BL

ALDWICKBURY PARK AL1 1AB

HARPENDEN AL5 2AX

Regards, Darren.

I've also updated map at the start of this post, selection above are in red.

First of all the line between N and S should be a straight one across the map just below Birmingham. As it is now we will always struggle for players whereas you will have more than enough.

For a grest finish, a great well established course, as well as excellent facilities then Silvermere is a very good option as Danny and David have said. The second shot to the last is played to an almost Island green with the whole clubhouse watching and cheering every diuff shot that does not make it.

The split should be just North of Birmingham John, following the line of the M6 as it passes across the top of the city.  That's the geographic north/south split anyway.  I sent Darren a map showing this split as I couldn't get it into the post. 

Mannings heath sounds nice

Sounds even fairer to me Chris, kindly get Darren to agree with you.

If only he would listen John, if only he would listen. 

That line also goes straight through the middle of Wales giving a North - South split, as well as setting up some other interesting rivalries, such as Norwich - Ipswich, Leicester - Coventry and Birmingham - Black Country. 

Ok, link to the map below.  Put simply, If you were born below the line, you're a Southerner.  If you were born above the line, you're a Northerner.  Geographicly speaking anyway.  Fo those born on the line, you're red!

So is there a decision yet on how the hell we decide who we play for? 

http://www.golfshake.com/media/image/6646/

Ok, link to the map below.  Put simply, If you were born below the line, you're a Southerner.  If you were born above the line, you're a Northerner.  Geographicly speaking anyway.  Fo those born on the line, you're red!

So is there a decision yet on how the hell we decide who we play for? 

http://www.golfshake.com/media/image/6646/

Without getting a better zoomed in image it looks as though I might have played for the wrong team last year!?!?

Born in Smethwick but that red line is a bit close too call.

Borderline to me mate.  Might just be a Southerner. 

Daves right, Bristol to the Wash is how we've always played it, place of residence rather than birth.  Buggered if I'm changing teams now. 

Bristol to the Wash is not a fair division of the country, How on earth can anyone in South Wales be in the North. Darren has now got it about right.

For once i have to agree with Daren and John,I live in king's lynn which is on the corner of the wash and i do not class my self as a southerner.

You cannot divide a country diagonally, David, If you wish to go down that route then it would be just as fair, under your thinking to make the line from Newcastle on Tyne to Bristol. Sane difference, a load of rubbish.

If the South Wales boys think they are are Northerners then are welcome to join up with the North.

Hi guys, sorry to chuck a spanner in the works.  I'm with David on this, all I was doing was linking directly to Chris Perry's map.  The differences of opinion on based on how you view the spherical globe.

Anyway, does it real matter play for where you heart is.  Have you heard Wayne or Tim speak recently ? definitely not brought up North of Leicester/Birmingham

So it's the North East, the North West, Lancashire and Yorkshire, The Midlands and the whole of Wales against the home counties, because  we have no players in the South West at all. No wonder the North win every time and perhaps why they do not want  to have a fair division. Then to cap it all because their area is so large  they do not wish to travel to the South for the competition, talk about having your cake and eating it too.

I'm with John on this one.  Sorry.  Split the country in half per the map I put on which is the geographic split.  It also rather conveniently splits Wales almost exactly in half too. 

And I think it should be based on birth, not residence - you wouldn't see a European who plays on the US Tour playing for the USA in the Ryder cup and I'm pretty sure John Daly hasn't moved to Europe to get on the European team at Celtic Manor. 

I think one caveat should be added though - If you have previously played in the comp you are eligible to continue playing for whichever team you represented, whether it was the right one or not.  That means Santo and Tim can keep their alligience with the split still being correctly (in my opinion) implemented. 

Chris, I have it on good authority that our Captain this year is well capable of taking you all on on his own, as he does not want the South to have that many players. As good as he is I think he will find it a struggle.

Well if your captain is Mr Ley, I think you will find by Darren's split he's actually a northerner.  Try telling a man from South Wales he's from the north and watch the reaction.....

Can't wait until 2009.  Will make sure I play this year and get non golfing helpers in.  That's if the North Captain wants me

Will be back shortly with venue short list.

Regards, DArren.

I think we are well down the path to having Mr David Marshall as Captain of the South Team this year.

Leave our South Wales boys alone, Chris, they are ours, no matter where you wish to put the dividing line.

Mr Marshall is favourite for captain this year.

Come on you Northerners, we can't let all these Southern softies start dictating to us. If they have agreed who their Captain is, maybe we should as well. This would get the competitive juices well and truly flowing !!!!!!!!!

Not accepting defeat at all Wayne, just stating an obvious fact as to which side has the most real estate to choose from.

After we have thrashed you then I can see arguments being put forward for the N/S boundary line to moved as far up as Doncaster.

I don't care where the line is or where we are playing.  As long as it's not during the period I am away on holiday I will be there and will proudly represent the North. 

I say the simple solution is, set up the comp, if 60 people register, then the 30 most northernly players play for the north, and the rest play for the south.

Yay..... Banter, banter, banter.

Can't wait for handbags at dawn in my new garish outfit!

Anyway. David for the South Captain. Tim for the North gets my vote.

Lets get the venue sorted nice and quick so we can all start preparing for the battle.

Simon, agreed.  Couldn't have put it better myself.

Simon, never mind garish outfits, where did you get that handicap?

Wayne I've got a new number. I'll PM it to you.

Danny,

I have been playing rather well of late. you know it'll not go well on the NvS though!

Mr Marshall, You have my backing captain sir. I can do the vice bit!

I think you have your man Dave.

Simon gets my vote.

Tim gets my vote for the north. Come on lets vote somebody in so we can start reminding them S/S how easy it's going to be again.

Darren. The line in the middle of England has the N/S divide is cr*p. It is a line from the Bristol Channel through to The Wash

Mr Captain, why don't you name your two nominees for vice so we can have a vote.

I doubt a Bristolian would consider himself one from the North. I don't need an American company telling me what is N and S in my own country.

As the Midlands are accepted as the Middle of the country (Hence the name Midlands) then that is where the line should be drawn.

Who would that be , could you narrow it down a bit??

I am not playing.

I've just googled 'north south divide map' as Tweedy suggested and I now know where Darren got his map from.  The split Darren has put in is the theoretical socio-economic divide of the country, and is often a general reflection of political alliegiance too apparently.  So his map IS valid.  Question is, which of the following ways do we think that the country should be split for the N v S: -

• By socio-economic divide
• By geographic divide

My view is geographic.  Perhaps we could do with one of those poll things we've heard about on here.  We could use that for selecting a venue too. 

Right all those that have gas ,electric ,inside bog and running water put your hand up, Right you lot are in the South!

Oh god...

Please shut up about the divide.

keep it as previous years and if you regard yourself as a southerner, play for the south and vice versa.

Keep the adrenaline for the match. we need a venue. David, i am happy to be Vice Captain if you wish.

Perhaps it should be East v West with that dividing line. You lot sound like the Russians trying to divide up Germany after the war, then taking parts of Poland And Czech because they are nearer to them.

Wychwood Golf Club according to Darrens map is in the North and that is exactly 36 miles due north of where I live in Reading yet it is a further 200 miles to Newcastle, which I believe is in the North.

I would hate to have you lot decide what is a fair share of anything as you seem incapable of doing it yourself, just leaning on the Ordnance Survey and Google.

Wayne, I have seen the photos of them and they look a great club. I am sure you will soon forget that I was smooth talked into passing mine to David.