Golf forum

Twice this week i have not felt safe while playing golf.

This first was in a open at mount oswold, from my understanign in opens they leave 10 mins between tee times, but this one had 4 minute intervals, cue a massive back log on the first tee with 30-45 mins delay, cue people going and haveing a few pints before they tee off. for people who havent played there its a nice course but not designed for when its really busy as its tight the tee boxers are close to fairways and some holes you have to either walk back down the fairway you just been on or walk out infront of the people teeing off on the next hole. A man in the group in front got hit by a ball from the group behind. hows that work??

Then last night tee up heard a rumbe of thunder in the distance, smack away , get to the green lightning in the distance people still playing. next tee lightening on back swing, at which point were on the top of the hill and can see 3 seperat storms closing in on us. Me and partner walk off the other 2 continue playing before we get back to car park big fork lightning hits ground in the not to far off distance, walk past pro shop to get asked why we walked off?? The guy still wasnt going to blow the horn to call people off. Anyways i got in the car before it lashed down, but i cant belive people are stupid enough to stay out in it.

Matt,

I believe that before a golfer is allowed out on a golf course he should be licensed and insured.  No, I am not a 'red tape' sort of person - far from it. Well, we presently do not have licensing but at least everyone with a conscience should be insured and insurance certificates should be checked before visitors are allowed out. Membership should likewise depend on the production of insurance.  

In the 1960s I witnessed a person lose an eye after being hit with a golf ball  and it was not a pretty sight.

Golf ball speeds in excess of 200 mph have recently been recorded.

Every year over 12,400 golf injuries require hospital treatment, and nine out of ten golfers have insufficient golf insurance. In 1998 the Court of Appeal upheld a County Court ruling that 'Golfers are liable for shots that cause injury, no matter how slight the risk.'  (Source: 'Pin High' - issue 22, Summer 2008) 

You think that's unsafe Matt..

Wait until tomorrow when our Society boys turn up - Alfie's a little devil from 20 yards tha nose...

But on a good note - if ya survive the Oswald obstacle course the food is really nice...

Limited agreement is good.

Why a licence?

Many reasons, but imagine four new golfers all apply for  licences? You stick them on the course at first light ahead of everyone else. Unless they make it round in 3hrs. 15 mins. then no licences issued.

My legs cannot take the 5hrs. 30 mins. rounds which I sometimes had to suffer when playing with the Virtual Golf Society. And, I'm sure that I'm not alone. Although for speed I play at first light on my own, I would not mind an occasional round of golf with another player.

In the 1960s we made it round a course in 3 hours. Even allowing for the fact that today's youngsters are often fat and unfit nevertheless an extra quarter of an hour ought to be adequate.  The aged and infirm should, if necessary,  be made to use buggies in order to make the time limit.

Full agreement

Yep, I can't take anything over 4 and a half hours, although golfshake.com events have been known to take this long and upwards to 5 and a half !

I did manage a sub 3 hour round once, playing on my own.  But that was after I nearly hit a member (hence Insurance agreement) with a wayward shot and then felt I need to get clear of him as fastest as possible.  I never putted so well, awesome round but seen by no one

I remember a junior member who played off 6 and used to walk so fast it was like he was running. No practice swing, just set up and rip it, then chipped and putted like a god. Going out first in a junior comp with 1 other player and he was round in 2hrs28 mins. Just crazy.

No names mentioned, but have limited patience for 20+ handicappers who take more than 2 practice swings

John,

You are VERY FAST off the mark. I changed my colloquialism within seconds, but still you got in there! John,  you know that I am one of your greatest fans and indeed your speed of play is admirable.

I would have loved to play you when I was a young man when, just like you, I could seriously play but not quite as well as you. I believe that you played off scratch for eight years whilst I could only manage 2 for six months. But then I was nobbut a boy.  

Your abrasiveness is second only to mine, but under it you have a heart of gold whilst I don't.

Your fan,

 the Viper 

You are the funniest poster of any forum I have ever frequented, Viper. A wonderful turn of phrase that always hits the right spot. I would just love a fraction of your talent.

I am sorry that I appear to be abrasive, when in actual fact I am nothing like that at all.

Slow play seems to be the order of the day in this current climate. Way too many practice swings, yacking, no forward thinking and a could not care less attitude to others on the course. Sad to say that it will never change now.

I think my subs to my golf club incorporates insurance or do you think it a good Idea to have my own? Never so close to giving someone a slap yesterday-wayward ball it happens-I can accept that but NO BLOODY APOLOGY-Manners- dragged up not brought up.

David,

Check out your club's insurances and establish inter alia if it covers you playing on AWAY courses. Whilst we are discussing personal liability insurance there is also the question of insuring your equipment. With regard to the latter: Keep an eye on home contents insurance and also credit card insurances as they are sometimes wider than one imagines.

Whilst we all need insurances, once one puts in a claim our insurance company can sometimes become our main oponent! Direct Line was the last company which completely screwed me when my classic car was vandalised.

I would like to say "Study the policy(ies) carefully," but as a literate Solicitor of several decades I allege that many policies are so craftily drafted that they are little more than gobbledegook which deliberately leave the door open to argument.

All you can due is due your best to protect your back, and hope that if you do put in a claim the insurance company is honourable. (Stifled laughter). 

John,

I'm not abrasive either. We both send other people up, and we can both take it - as you have recently evidenced when I mentioned our joint personal problem.  Neither of us are malicious but unfortunately many people are insecure and too easily attack a wind up. That is often seen as being abrasive when indeed it is no more than 'Morcambe and Wise' style humour. Of course in today's society such televised humour would be censored as there's no way a big guy would be allowed to slap the little chap.

As for my turns of phrase: That's not my drafting  but that of Petrushka - my work experience  girl. I could not find anyone English who could spell. When she's not polishing my drivers, or pulling my cart, she's writing to you guys as personally I can't be bothered.   Thanks, but I can't take credit when the work's not my own.

p.p. Viper

Petrushka 

David,

Here is my photograph. I'm 19 and Viper's assistant. I study Fine Art at Goldsmiths, London, but my main interest is Fashion Design.

I am Russian, but try to speak good English. But, I do not understand all of Viper's swear words but he is always kind to me and never swears at me.

My real Papa is dead and Viper is like a Papa to me even though strictly speaking he is my employer.

I enjoy working in golf. We do not really have golf in Russia, but no doubt it will come very soon as society is rapidly changing in my homeland. 

Viper's wife is Russian, so I especially feel part of their family.

Thank you for asking about me.  I am sorry if the last photograph frightened you. It was the only English girl I could find not wearing torn Denim. I thought that she was quite pretty and reasonably well dressed for an English girl. Sorry again.

Petrushka

My Club has Insurance built into the membership so anyone who joins as a member is covered for the year and covered for upto 120 days outside the United Kingdom. Thats a great idea, but obviously a bit like in the Driving World, you'll always get struck by the un-insured Driver or in this case the Pay & Play Visiting Golfer.

I also have my own policy with Golfplan but like Viper mentions above I'm not sure what will happen when or if I ever need to make a claim as looking at some of the 'Terms & Conditions' I forsee plenty of loopholes they could wiggle out of and therefore end up escaping without having to pay up.

Christopher is possibly raising something very interesting and new to the discussion:

So far, I think that we have only been discussing taking out public liability golf insurance, which in my opinion is essential. Imagine that one accidentally kills another player who each year earns a massive salary. His widow would normally seek compensation for her financial losses. Such could result in making of an everyday average sort of guy bankrupt.

Christopher now raises a much wider insurance issue namely 'What about taking out insurance which not only protects me against injuring another player, but also protects me if I get injured by an uninsured golfer.' Extremely good point.

I think that I also need to take a look at my own policy!

Well the good thing is in my Policy Viper theres allowances for legal costs. So should I get hit by someone whos not insured. I can still sue their ass off at no expense to myself and hopefully get a good claim out of it.

The only thing I don't like is how these Insurance companies are finding 'Get Out Clauses' in their policies now. Guess some people must be making a lot of claims and rather then put premiums up they are coming up with 100 point terms that if so much as one is unfulfilled then they have you over the barrel and can refuse to pay out.

I was looking at my policy last night. I have used Golf Plan for 3 years now and renew direct debit each March. Only thing I do each year is submit my current equipment list to ensure my gears protected. However last night looking at the Policy there are so many ways for them to get out of compensating you if your clubs are stolen or damaged.
I mean I have always assumed if some crook broke into my car at the club and stole my clubs I'm covered. But this year the policy has changed to say that forced entry must be visible on the car, so if the crook picks the lock too bad you're not getting paid. If you have a car where access to the boot can be obtained by folding down rear seats (pretty much sure thats 99% of vehicles on the road) then again you're SOL and won't get paid out.

Christopher,

First let me state that I am prejudiced: Prejudiced against insurance companies. I personally have had very few claims in my life but over the last ten years I have had two claims. One was not met at all, and on the second I received £7,000. for an honest claim of £15,000.

When I had my own business I had several break ins. One was very strange as nothing was taken, even though I had several thousand pounds worth of brand new networked computers. The burglar used a candle (not a torch) and his candle wax was left over many files in storage, deeds, and Wills over which I had a duty of care to protect.

I honestly needed to employ a locum professional for three months to go through everything in order to check for interference or theft. I held many hundreds of thousand papers and there was no way in the world that I could find the time to carry out the exercise and it needed doing quickly on a full-time basis.

The insurance company ruled that I had suffered no loss (until I proved that I had) and so would not pay for the audit. I unsuccessfully argued that any interference amounted to a loss, as the interference directly resulted in necessary expenditure having to be incurred, and so therefore I argued that I was covered.

Whilst such is possibly an etheric argument the second example is not:

A vandal poured paint stripper onto two panels of my 19 year old Bentley Turbo R which sounds grand, but the car was only worth £15,000.

Several experts unequivocably stated that the car had to be totally resprayed in order to do a proper job. Direct Line Insurance Co. argued that as only two panels were damaged that is all that they would pay for.  A full re-spray would have cost £15,000. - the value of the vehicle.

Why did I not sue them? I constantly have at least one person in Court. I cannot devote my life to suing everyone that screws me. Nor, would  I employ another Solicitor to do this as most Solicitors do not accord with what I expect. They are like most other business people (no better, no worse) - but generally speaking  their talents leave much to be desired. Want anything done properly, then do it yourself - one of my life rules.

Having declared my prejudice, which goes deeper - I general despise insurance companies - I will try to comment honestly and without negative colouring: 

I generally ask myself the question "Could I absorb the loss if it occurs?"  If the answer is "Yes" then I do not insure, conversely I insure. One surely has to hope that the insurance company will be reasonable and honest? We have no-one else to protect us. What is the alternative?

In theory one could spend days comparing the wording of different policies. This is fine in broad terms as one can get a macro feel as to what is covered and what is not covered. But, on a micro basis if the Loss Adjuster does not like your face, or is jealous of your car, or the golf clubs which you lost then he can make life very difficult whatever the wording of the policy is.

They put you in the position of either accepting their offer or wasting £5,000.+  worth of your time or money suing them and most people cannot be bothered to go down that route. The Insuance Ombudsman Service is largely manned by clueless youngsters keen to settle on any terms whatsoever. So, do not expect a fair result by complaining to them.

It often comes down to luck of the draw as to who takes on your claim within the insurance company. A lottery, but that's life!

As for suing a wrongdoer: Many people do not have a brass nickel and whether a person does or not many debtors successfully disappear at the first sign of trouble. Usually better to sue an insurance company, as they usually stay around.

All you can due is due your best

Viper, I'm sure you can do better than the above albeit many years having someone else write for you eh!!!!

Allegedly the world began with a BANG, then arrived the GEEKS followed by the KRANKS and shortly thereafter the game of golf was born. The nutty participants left their wives at home and drove into the depths of the countryside to play with their balls (a fairway from home)  long before film was invented, so  it was inevitable that writers arrived to record the strange carryings on.

In turn the writers  wanted to join in the fun so naturally they had to employ someone to do  their writing for them. The problem was how to not encourage the writers' assistants  to also join in.

The only solution was to employ writers' assistants   from countries which had no interest in golf and who only worked on meaningful pursuits.   Hence writers on golf are invariably from either Russia, the distant regions of Iceland, or  Hull - that is the last place on earth God made.

A man is only as good as his assistants, but in England it is easy to excel as only foreigners speak good English and there are plenty of them (where did the English disappear to); only crazed people are nowadays found on golf courses (they go there instead of staying at home to thrash their wives);  and so we now have  lots of writers writing about something which they know absolutely nothing about for players (working out their anger) who know even less than the writers do and so everyone is blissfully happy. And, the golfers' wives blossom.

Sure, I could do better than my best, but as for doing it right; now there's the question. As total freedom rules, arguably everything is right and it would be politically incorrect to say otherwise as we are now all displaced foreigners seeking political asylum on our golf courses.