CONGU to be dropped in favour of the USGA system....???

I have heard a reliable rumour about this subject. CONGU is going to be dropped by the EGU in favour of the USGA system. This is apparently because CONGU is almost unique in the world, as almost all other countries use the USGA system or a SLOPE system (can anyone confirm the percentage split about this?) and having to convert is a constant issue and problem for CONGU golfers when playing abroad. By using the same system worldwide everything is easier and equal, allegedly. Anyone else heard about this? I overheard a well briefed club official at my club talking about this in a factual "it's going happen" way a few months ago. There will, apparently, be a long, years, transition period.

I'm not passing comment on either system, nor am I passing comment on the decision to change. I just wondered if anyone else had heard anything about this?

For interested persons, I have put a link below of a reasonably interesting and intellectual article on this subject: http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?52234-CONGU-v-USGA

I would suggest you've read that and found that 2+2=5, at least replacing the congu system with a usga system is a bit of Daily Mail headline

All of it is long term term, slope system is being implemented over many many years and handicapping hasn't been agreed to change (although the general principle is to obtain a worldwide system). All the info has been on the congu website for a long time.

What I gather is, although I havnt really read into it is. CONGU is based on stableford. US system drops highest and lowest score from card and works from there. I may be totally wrong so dont snap my head off. Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Hi Guys,

I have some concrete info on this. I am the nominated courses assessor for Cambridgeshire. I can confirm that the world's governing bodies are working together to create a world handicapping system. So that handicaps will be comparable on any course in the world. This is still a work in progress with the aim being to adopt in 2024 or there abouts.

Over the next ten years England Golf will rate every course in the country using the USGA rating system. This will bring English courses inline with much of the world including Scotland. English courses will still use the Congu handicapping system and will NOT have a slope rating simply a new SSS using the USGA system. This will change if a World system is adopted in 10 years time.

All tees including womens will be rated for men, so men can play a competition from forward tees if needed. Womens will have an SSS for both the forward and day tees.

There are loads of advantages to doing this and obviously having a world system will be a good thing.

I will try and answer any questions if you have them.

As Secretary of my golf club, I am also aware of the changes in the pipeline. Looking at the tees we use in Winter - I have been telling our members for years that a re-assessment of the SSS for winter games would allow us to make these competitions 'qualifying' for handicap purposes. I'm not convinced that most care or indeed want this, but I for one would like to know how much lower I should be scoring when almost all the holes are playing from the red tees.

Having spoken to Bedfordshire's trained 'assessor' (our County President), I am aware that the timetable for our County will be in line with the EWGA course assessments, as these were already on a 10 year cycle. Unfortunately, that means my course will have to wait around 7 years to be assessed.

Although there is no intention to change the Congu handicapping system; I can certainly understand the reasoning for looking at this. The Slope rating used by the Americans apparently helps toward calculating handicaps to use when playing different courses - I tried to work this out once, and found it extremely complicated.

Played with a particularly good player in Phoenix 5 years ago, who said his handicap was "about 10". I was off 10 at the time and he was way better than me, and nearer to the 5 handicap of my playing partner, but handicaps there are adjusted according to how tough the course you are playing is (aparently).

Courses under USGA Slope rating go from 55 (easiest) to 155 (hardest in the world - think Kiawah Island from the back tees). The 'average' course is apparently rated at 113. Quite how you are supposed to use these numbers to adjust your handicap for the course and tee you are playing is the part I found complicated, although you would need a figure for your home club to be able to work out a handicap for a club you are visiting.

But doesn't the USGA system take every round into its calculations, using the last 20 in the main. This will mean more scores being posted and so more work for handicap Secs. It also gives a clearer picture of how you are playing and stops the guys who where 6hcp still boasting that hcp years later when they can't even break 80 anymore.

To show this, I have a CONGU Hcp of 6 (5.6), a GS Hcp of 2 and an unofficial USGA Hcp of +1.2 so what is my Hcp?

I would hope that most work for whoever does the handicapping at a club would now involve a computer; so it is just the entry of the card that needs doing, not the maths... I agree that the USGA system adjusts handicaps quicker because it is NOT limited to +0.1 changes as a players game deteriorates. So this is a more fair reflection of current form. Basically EGU/CONGU only requires 3 rounds/12 months to stay "Active" which means a max of +0.3 in h/c change, which is not good.

Having now studied the issue I believe we should, over the next 10 years, adopt the USGA system in full for courses AND handicapping. However, if EGU/CONGU, having gone to ALL the trouble and effort to reassess all the courses in England, just changes the SSS BUT keep their current formulae and procedure for adjusting a players h/c, they will have missed an ideal opportunity to unify golf world wide..... unless I have mis-understood the last three posts....

David:

At a CONGU course your h/c is 5.6.

Playing in the US or any other USGA conforming country it's an unofficial +1.2.

But please tell me, what's a GS handicap???

Golfshakes? Golf Society? Golf Scramble?

.

A GS handicap is from here. Post your scores and you get a Golfshake Hcp. A CONGU Hcp can be manipulated by not playing in qualifiers (except for 3 to keep an 'active' hcp).

As said above its important to point to out that this current change is course ratings and NOT handicapping yet.

Now regarding the manipulation of handicapping, it still exists in USGA handicapping too, infact as ALL rounds are included those ones that you go out to play and score dreadful after work also affect your handicap too, and you can have lots of them (which would quickly move your handicap up). There are also some anomalies of the system too, like the fact they have rules that cater for incomplete rounds (you can finish the round early and still post the round), gimme putts are allowed too. And how about the day that your average calculation includes a very low 8 under round that you shot in early season (just inside your 20 inclusive rounds though, and all the others you have been struggling with swing changes and not breaking 100) you then shoot a very respectable 3 under round and find that because your mega 8 under is dropped off the calculations that your handicap actually goes up !! Try explaining to people that even when you shoot way under your handicap your handicap still went up! the guy that doesn't even understand why we currently have CSS calculations may not understand that one. Anyway there are plenty of anomalies with the USGA system and that's why Congu have only specified they are looking into a new system that may include aspects of this system .... and have not specified a time scale for this to occur.

David, I would rather play against you if you used the US handicap rather than the Congu one, I'll stick with my Congu h/c if you don't mind

David, I dread to think what my GS handicap would be - I've put in ALL of my 149 rounds in 2013, but I didn't let the GS computer adjust my handicap unless they were qualifying rounds (of which there were about 30 I think). The one obvious thought is that my course is quite easy (par 72 and SSS 71 off whites and 69 off yellows), so any away course under the Slope system would probably give me a higher handicap. At least then I wouldn't be too upset at shooting 15 over when I'm playing off 9.