Snobbery

Are snobbery and elitism the main problems with golf today? Thoughts and opinions please! (Just trying to get an interesting discussion going here)

Chris, I'm afraid very afraid   tough subject to discuss online when it's difficult to tell emotion from expression and content can easily be taken out of context.

Will watch this post with interest though

Very true Darren. Given the usual quality of posters on here, I was hoping to avoid any conflict. Perhaps somebody would be able to advise why/how golf came to be like this possibly?

Personally, I think that there has been less snobbery over the last few years, as golf has become a bit more mainstream thanks to more tv coverage. With many courses now inviting members without handicap certificates being required it does open up the possibilities of golf becoming a premier sport in this country. However, I do believe that this is a double edged sword. The last thing I would want during a round is to hear some unwieldy yobbo swearing his way round the course and carving the place up, with no regret of his actions and no intention to return!

Wohoo!

A popcorn thread pulls up a chair to watch the scrap - only kidding.

There is an element of one up on the Jones's throughout society. Would you live in the rough end of town? However, whenever I've played in league matches against the (perceived) snobby clubs they have, in the main, been no different than the next man. The conversation may turn to "have you tried the Louis Rotheschild '58" but I don't see that as snobby or elitist, just different.

Yes they exist but so what.

I suppose it is down the members, not the visitors, or the club itself, that create an air of snobbery (or not) at clubs. For the record, I have no problem with 'posh' clubs or whatever, just wondered what peoples' opinions on these types of things were. As you point out Brian, if we could, we would all live in the nice part of town and be members at the best clubs.

Golf mirrors life in my view. Maybe it is snobbery. I pay the most I can afford to play at a nice club because I don't like mixng with the great unwashed!  I'm sure people at the top end of the financial spectrum would say the same about me.  I'm not ashamed of it. If I wanted to trudge round a dump of a course seeing all and sundry wearing all and sundry and behaving badly (in my view) then I would, but as don't have to, i'll pass!

To be honest David, I share similar thoughts to you. Sometimes I have to play the odd rubbish course due to my friends fancying a round but not being able to afford where I normally play. However, I work hard so am entitled to what I believe is fair value for money at a decent club!

It has long been the conviction that players from yesteryear were snobs, but my experience has taught me that old money provided to me the best and most enjoyable experiences of my life in the golfing world. They know how to conduct themselves and frown upon those who just do not have any form, of bearing at all.

It is true that new money has brought the game to many people who would, under normal circumstances, never have considered the game and this has also encouraged the nomad, which has changed the current perceptions of this wonderful game.

I do firmly believe that traditions, in  any sport should be maintained. I do not believe it is progress at all to change the way this game has been played for a very long time.

To be honest, the only snobbery (or rather a sort of inverse snobbery) I've found since I've taken it up is between those who play and those who don't - there's still quite a bit of percieved eltism from those who don't play towards those of us who do.

As for snobbery in clubs I don't beleive it does exist much now.  There is, however, a lot of reluctance to change and that really gets my goat.  I've played at a lot of many old, established clubs and have rarely come across anything but a warm welcome and a genuine interest in what I thought of the facilities, both from members and officials and that's how it should be - if they've allowed me to play their course as a non-member and I've paid my dues then I should be allowed, albeit temporarily, the priviledges of membership.  I will, of course, observe their codes of conduct as well even if I don't agree with them.

What I can't stand are the very few relics of clubs that refuse to even recognise that we are in the 21st, or even the 20th century and still have arcane rules especially about female members.  I've played at clubs like that and to be honest they make me feel uncomfortable so I avoid them.   

Snobbery is everywhere and Golf is no different.

"What type of car do you drive?"

"A Micra. You?"

"Oh I have a BMW for me and a Volvo for the wife"

If that is snobbery, just replace the car bits with anything material that one owns.

TheLyth

At our club the car park tells you a story.

20 years ago I used to play a bit of golf with an Electrician who owned a van - it was the only van in the club.  He was politely asked to park it in the lower corner of the visitors’ car park so it was as much out of sight as much as was possible.  These days, the car park often looks more like the local B&Q depot rather than a golf club.

Personally, I enjoy playing with a wide variety of members and have learnt not to judge a book by looking at the cover.  I'm not bothered about what people do for a living or what they drive but I do care about basic manners and etiquette.  All too often, it does seem to be the newer members that fail to repair pitchmarks and replace divots or ignore our starting tee regulations.

Less than ten years ago we had a five year waiting list and a big joining fee.  Now like most clubs in the area, we have vacancies.  The entry fee has all but gone and it has had a big impact on the dynamics of the club.  Some of the changes have been good, some not so good.  I guess that's life!

To put things in perspective, next week we will know whether HS2 will be going ahead.  If it does it will cut through our land and destroy a wonderful parkland golf course.

Richard

When I was a young lad growing up in the North East in the 60's golf was just not an option for a miner's son. It was for solicitors and bank managers. So it's great that these barriers have been broken down and anyone can play now at a reasonable price.

DaveT, I too started playing in the late fifties and found that the game was very cheap to play as was equipment to buy, and when compared to todays prices golf was far cheaper then that it is now. A weeks wages was all that was needed to be a full member of a private club. Now it is three times the price. Driver prices are outrageous and the marketing hype is now in full swing.

I have been a truck driver all my life so not one of the highest paid professions, yet I have managed to get into every private club that I have requested to join. Never been blackballed either. Being a good player may have helped but I would like to think that the way I conducted myself at the obligatory interviews was the successful part.

golf  to me has been a old boys thing for many years and golf clubs have been to used to the older members keeping the closed shop and not moving forward you will still get it in some clubs where they dont want us rif raf, i am sure will enjoy this when it gets more posts, but with younger players on the pga tours now younger people will want to play golf and clubs need to use this to move forward

It all depends how you look at it. If you are inside looking out or outside looking in?

A Club is run for its members, as the members change the Club will. But it should not change because a few think it needs to.

If you don't like the politics of a Club don't play there and just let them get on with it, but don't start telling people that they need to change it or else!

If you know the etiquette of the game and can play a bit you will be welcome on 99.9% of courses in the UK.

TheLyth

Sometime people mis-interpret snobbery for etiqutte.

For example I was playing today & as we were walking to the next tee a 3 ball playing the previous hole were all pulling there trolleys across the ladies tee & the mens tee. I tried to say nicely "Lads you shouldn't be over here" They just looked at me as if I called them all the names under the sun. They played the hole out & then dragged there trolleys back over the tees to the correct hole. These things & other things (saw a 6 ball playing last week & they were holding the course up, went in to pro shop to complain & he just said "yes I saw them & 3 of them are on the commitee!!) are the reasons I will be leaving to join a new club in March.