handicaps in competitions ??

Hi all

Need some advice and help on something.  Our society has about 20 players probably only 3 of them have official handicaps, most the others do play golf regularly but they never record their scores anywhere to actually have a proper handicap.  The issue I have to face is that I only have thier scores from 2 previous compeitions and therefore base their handicaps on these.....now obviously over time most players have got better, some havent change, etc.

Seems though its a lil unfair on the ones that do record their handicaps properly for those to be beaten by the net scores of the much higher handicap golfers, the situation means that in competitions the higher handicapers end up with net scores alot less that par whilst the true handicap players end up a couple over............... i was thinking that would it be best to just say that everyone should play off 3/4handicaps? (again tho isuue is is their actual handicap correct) or play stableford points  format without the use of handicaps ?? or just say forget handicaps altogether and play lowest scores???i dunno what to do HELP !!

Get them all to register on golfshake.com and track their golf handicaps correctly.

Or you could create a group and administer it online at golfshake.com and add their scores for them.  More info on the golfshake.com golf society system .

Good suggestion Dave.  The society I play in puts all new comers, who don't have an handicap, on 18 to start and then see where they go after the first 2 events. Stops the bandits !

Not if you play off 8 it don't.

Thanks Guys....

They all know about this website and the handicap system, but i presume they are too busy/cant be bothered to maintain it, yepo i have offered many times but then you get the "i dont know who or where the card is speach"

We tried the scratch handicap once in the previous comp but the prob you have then is you get the usual its obvious whose gonna win attitude and puts a dampner on things.....however I think David is spot on, and i should stick with this !  SCRATCH COMP or else dont play ! lol

I think that reverting back to the old rule of three quarters will help tremendously. This would mean a 24 handicap player getting only 18 shots whereas the six handicapper would still get five.

I still believe that there should be handicap higher than 24 so that only one shot per hole is allowed at most.

I play in my seniors roll-up on a Monday and Thursday and we have a few younger players with time on their hands so we allow them to play. One in particular is 23 years old and hits the ball like Danny does (Out of sight). I partnered him the other week and on our first hole which is a par five and one where I struggle to reach in three, this guy is usually about twenty yards short of the green in two.

This effectively means that with his 23 handicap, under the system of full handicap he gets two shots. So his first hole is one of 20/40 yds, depending where the pin is and is a par five. Is this fair? of course it isn't, it completely makes a mockery of the handicap system.

A return to three quarters and 7/8ths for stableford, is the way to go for fairness all round, as it is easier to improve in the higher handicap range than it is for the single figure player.

Thanks John

Yes I totally agree with you on that, 23handicap and ge hits it that far !! blimey,

i have only ever played once with a guy thats reached a par 5 in 2, but you gotta admit its dam good if you can do that !!

Whether he three or four putts is, IMO, irrelevant, Wayne. A par five is a hole over 475 yards long, not 30 yds long and by giving someone two shots this is what is actually happening.

Getting on in two is very good, because it requires both long hitting as well as accuracy, but in the main, those two qualities are only found in the single figure handicap golfer.

 I like your analogy in respect of darts but I have yet to see a 180 followed by a 26.

we operate a guest status until three cards have been handed in. The player is still able to take the longest drive and nearest the pin honours but strokeplay and matchplay scores dont count.

John,

I have to disagree, just because someone can hit the ball long & straight doesn't mean they should play of single figures or have there handicap reduced. If he is a true 23 handicapper then there is obviously other parts of his game that are weak.

I play with a chap who can hit his 3 wood 280ys straight but he can't chip or putt for toffee so his handicapp of 28 allows for the thinned chips & 3 putts. 

You only have to look at the pros for a comparison.....Sergio Garcia for example is very long & straight yet at the minute he can't buy a putt.

I agree that comps should be 3/4's.

John. 

if you did 3/4 handicaps .....Could there be a possible argument for the higher handicapers to say its not fair as they are reduced by more shots than the lower handicap golfers !! oh god why cant everyone just be scratch golfers instead !!!  lol

Technically yes

I know what you are saying John - that no matter how far you can hit it, it doesn't necessarily mean you will have a low handicap.   BUT, I am really struggling to imagine someone who can (reasonably consistently?) hit a 3-wood 280 yards straight can possibly be a 28 handicapper.  That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

One of my playing partners (the longest one) hots his 3-wood 220-240 yards straight most of the time, has a pretty average (at best) short game but plays off 9.

Maybe its just me, but the forums seem to have many players who claim to hit the ball over 250 yards fairly consistently yet have handicaps in the 20s.  I find it hard to comprehend - unless those individuals are exagerating their accuracy.

I expected you to disagree, John, and that is your prerogative, but I have to go along with Darrens answer to yours as the most likely scenario. I too find it incomprehensible that someone who can hit it long and straight struggles with the rest of the gameas to have that ability means that correct technique is being applied.

I know two people on this forum that hit the ball a long way, Danny and Paul (Sorry I left you out David). Paul is a fine golfer in all respects and Danny has so much potential it is almost unbelievable.

I played against a six handicapper last week who drove the ball beautifully, long and straight every time and I was thinking to myself, that If I could have played my second shots off his drives then I would have got round in par.

Alps P, Darren is correct in technically saying yes, but handicaps always favour the longer handicap player because it is far easier to take three shots off a 28 handicap than to take three shots off a three handicap.

I know this, because when I got down to 4 I thought I could play the game, but then realised that getting down to 3 was going to be difficult and every further reduction after that doubly so.

ok i gotta say regardless of handicap whoever that guy is that hits his 3 wood 280yards, wow that still takes some doing !!

Ive gotta agree with Wayne, on the driving distances, but really guys i just find it almost impossible to beleive that guys who drive the ball so far have poor short games, Ive worked hard on my short game this year but still when i think about it, id say it takes more practice to hit dirves long and straight than it does to chip, pitch and putt well, (maybe thats just me though).  However Ive noticed that since improving my short game ive actually lost distance in my drives not that i drove really far anyway (i think i hit about 220-30ish on good ones, but heck with that im on the fairways usually.......well at least 60% of the time id say .....(i think ive gone off topic now, friday afternoons at work hey !!)

John / Darren,

I can only go on what I see when I play with this chap.

Chipping & putting is all about feel & technique which some players really struggle to find.

Also unless your playing short par 4's all the time you need to have a good iron play as well which if you don't (like my mate) you don't hit the greens which leads to the bad chips & 3 putts.

John.. 

I am not so sure that three putting is really as widespread as you infer, John. In the two roll-ups I play eavch week we have players ranging from 23 years old to one of 81.

We put £1 in the pot and for each three putt, a donation of 10p. These 10p's never seem to average more than £1's worth. so it would seem that given 30 players with 18 holes = 540 greens putted on, then 10 three putts is not a lot, and probably evened out with the same amount of single putts.

As we all know lower scoring can only be obtained by hitting greens in regulation and by putting well. You mention Sergio, and I have to agree with you in respect of his putting, but then there are many pro's who are suffering in this department at the moment.

I'm the longhitter with the poor short game. Went round in 91 today. If I had a short game, I'd have gone round in 80 easily. Too many times today, just missed the greens, or they didn't hold, but no short game to get up and down. My putting is not bad.

Check out my scorecard, all the bad holes are a result of not being able to chip.

I agree with both John's here. I SHOULD be able to chip, as chipping is technically easy than driving. My big problem is judging the feel, and commiting to the shot.

What's with these negative ways, Danny?

No sympathy from us Eh!, David.

I played with the girlfriend's cousin for the first time at the weekend.  He's a young lad (21 last month) and said he's rubbish in one breath then boasts about how far he can hit it in the next.  He was right on both counts. 

Every tee shot he took his 3 wood and was 200 yards+ and in the middle of the fairway.  I dream of the consistency he had.  His long irons were good too.  But I still carded 11 strokes less than him (and I carded over 100).  Why?  No delicacy to his game.  He was full swing and full power or nothing, which meant that his short game was shocking, often chipping over the green and then back onto it.  He couldn't read a green, couldn't guage the distnce of his putt and three putted more often than not.  We started making him putt from 12 inches because he was missing most of them. 

So can you drive long and straight consistently and be a high handicapper?  My experience is yes!

I tried, but there is no answer to that.

If I wanted you in tears Dave, I can think of more rewarding ways to do that.

I dont feel negative John. Just being realistic. I actually felt great about my game yesterday. Its all becoming very clear. Learn to chip around the greens, and my handicap WILL tumble.

I need to get the wife to buy me a short game ,session with my local pro.

I will give you your short game lesson anytime you wish, Danny.