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Alan Gunnigle

can anyone recomend a decent heavy putter?

the normal heavy ones are around 360g, yes do one that is very heavy but it's £250 in my pro shop, weighted shaft system or something.

Colin Coote

which kind of putter are you looking for, face balanced or one with Toe-Hang etc.

Alan Gunnigle

the one i have is a yes putter "marilyn"

something similar would be nice.

Colin Coote

is it balanced or does it hang

Dave ley

Loud Mouth b.a.

Alan,

If you fill the shaft with sand:

1.  Ensure that it is 'kiln dried'  sand otherwise if may rot out your shaft.

2.  Cram in, then seal the sand into the shaft with eg, a blob of 'Araldite.'

But, a heavy shaft has a different feel to a heavy head, but both certainly make for a heavy club.

Another cheap alternative to Dave's suggestion is to Araldite tungsten onto the putter head. Either paint or leave as is. Tungsten contains no iron so it cannot rust. (Use a hot air gun to remove). I sometimes use tungsten cylindrical weights to counterbalance customers' woods. Golfsmith sell them. Tungsten is far heavier than lead.  But one can use sticky backed lead tape as a lighter choice. 

Be aware however that there is a R & A / USGA limit on how heavy your putter may be,

Possibly look this up yourself, and tell us what it is,  and you will have contributed to the work load of supplying this answer. I don't know the answer off the top of my head.  

P.S. Alan, when you have your 'perfect putter' it can usually be improved by sending the head away for the face to be grooved. Putter face grooving, irregardless of face loft, will always increase ball roll / distance rather than initial skid and sometimes also ball bounce on a long putt. 

http://golf.about.com/od/equipmentreviews/gr/heavyputter.htm

http://ww
w.youtube.com/watch?v=ozN-nJ0oypI

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Heavy-Putter-35-Golf-
Mallet-E3-DF-E3DF-/400140198347?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item5d2a
36e1cb

Alan Gunnigle

Loud Mouth b.a.

Alan,

You have hit on something which works very effectively for many golfers.

Indeed I increased the head weight of my Bettinardi A02 by 103g to great effect.

But simply doing that alone can cause more problems that it potentially solves.

Ideally one needs to also add weight into the top end of the shaft, i.e. counterbalance, otherwise you may feel that you have a great weight dangling on the end of  a piece of string!

Two years ago I had similar great results tinkering with drivers. It slowed my swing speed down but that helped. Nowadays I am trying to achieve the same results with my drivers without so artificially slowing myself down.   

It is a question of trial and error, and one can play around with the concept for only a few pounds outlay, without needing to spend a mucher larger sum on a new putter and possibly get it wrong on a mystery permutation. 

Colin Coote

Dave ley

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

Just as, over the years, wood heads have got larger so have putter heads got heavier.  That is not to say that either or both developments should automaticvally presumed to be an ideal scenario just because the industry feeds them to us. One needs to 'suck it and see' what works best for each individual golfer.

In recent years  driver heads have rapidly increased in size and most are now at their maximum legal size of 460cc. Nevertheless I find that, speaking generally, a 360cc composite driver head works best for me.

With putter heads weight increases have been far less dramatic and virtually all putters fall well below their  maximum legal weight  limit.

You ask a fair question......why so heavy?

Not so many years ago one would have asked a similar question for driver heads.....why so large? Yet nowadays a 460cc driver head appears to most golfers as being the normal size, and anything of lesser size positively small.

A much heavier putter may in future years be the norm. Normality is simply what one is used to experiencing. Normality is not always what could potentially work best. And, what could potentially work best to some extent varies between individual golfers.

If one strives for improvement then trying various permutations is a healthy process. Sadly though the golf industry tends to produce uniform equipment. Once 460cc driver heads arrived most of the smaller head sizes disappeared.

Likewise with putters they all tend to be around the same weight. Should a manufacturer produce a significantly heavier or lighter club most golfers would baulk and declare:

"This doesn't feel right. It's not normal!"

But fortunately there are always companies willing to innovate and break new ground. One such company produces the 'heavy putter.'

I do not own their product but have attempted to replicate it as best I can. The principles explained  really work. A much heavier putter does everything stated in the company's advertising MPEG:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozN-nJ0oypI

Why do I want it? Very simply because it is better for me, And I stress for me.

Dave,

Interesting comments.

I agree. The slide in counterbalancing plugs of various pre-formed weights (I forget their brand name) are expensive. I use 'universal butt weighting plugs' (sealable tubes) to which I add cylindrical tungsten weights and then fill with glue in order to avoid the risk of rattle. But readers - do not glue until the best for you weight permutation has been found. 

Ron Devereux

I use a very old solid brass putter (Probably 30 years plus) in the winter so that I can use the same putting stroke as my Anser 2 putter which I use for the rest of the year.  It means that I don't have to hit it any harder to get the same feel on slow greens.

It might be a cheaper alternative to shop around for a similar putter, although it doesn't have any 'guide' lines like modern putters

Tim Hawkins

Mike Foster

Why not just add a couple of strips of lead tape to the back of your putter, it's easy to obtain and works a treat, people at my old club have been doing this for over 20 years to great effect.

Lead tape is available from most pro shops or tinternet. 

Mike Foster

P.S.

The effects are easily reversible should you want to go back to the lighter club! 

Matt Simmons

What about self adhesive tyre balance weights? I have a few strips of them and they tell you how much you have added without having to use scales.

Normal cost, a box of teabags/bag of sugar and a quick "I'm building a model boat and need some ballast"

Alan Gunnigle

Loud Mouth b.a.

Guidelines are good.

My last putter came without an instruction manual, but I eventually figured it out. Flat part at the front. 

Alan Gunnigle

Colin Coote

All of these comments about adapting your putter with weights leads me to ask this serious question.

If you add weights to your putter head (lead weights) is this permitted within the Rules and thereby will this still be a conforming Putter?

Colin Coote

All of these comments about adapting your putter with weights leads me to ask this serious question.

If you add weights to your putter head (lead weights) is this permitted within the Rules and thereby will this still be a conforming Putter?

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

"Yes," in respect of every club in the bag. But do not stick them on the face.

But be careful though not to paint 'Wongo Co.' on the crown as this could make it non-conforming.

See the logic?  

Dave ley

Dave Patrick

A question to you lot who seem to tinker about in their workshops or sheds.

Can you turn a NON face balanced putter to a FACE balanced putter by the use of positioning weights on its backside?

Dave CAC handed Geordie.

Loud Mouth b.a.

Dave,

Good point which is particularly relevant when one has adjustable woods' heads. Such may not be adjusted during the round.

David,

In theory "Yes." But it is likely a pig of a job without a putter which embodies a conversion kit!

http://www.118golf.co.uk/Golf-Clubs-Putters/Heavy-Putter/Heavy-Putter-Weight
-Kit_ct1520bd108pd4616.htm

Colin Coote

At the beginning of the year i decided to target my putting style and stroke needing improving and looked into working out which type of putter complemented the stroke i was trying to play.  I wanted a putter with a softer touch for lightning fast summer greens.

I realised i was using a toe-hang putter but i was not using the right stroke for such a putter, i decided i would be better off using a face-balanced putter.

I was not going to spend a fortune on a trial and error basis.  Within a month i came across a cheap £5 dunlop blue collar bc1 putter, it gave the appearance of being face balanced when i laid it across my fingers so i bought it. it is a mallet style putter and weighed 500g.

I have putted well in the past with this putter everytime i have used it and i am very happy with it.  I putt with a low left hand that has been a blessing.  I got to complete 18 holes last sunday morning and  my putting aim was decidedly off target to the left on too many putts.  Because of this i decided to check my putter again last night for balance.  I was surprised to see that it was not a face balanced putter as i first thought, i found the toe of the putter was up about 5mm and at first sight i have this as the reason for misalignment.  Trial and error time.

I have attempted to face balance this putter using lead, and it seems to have done the job.

I just have to try it out on the course now.

i am hoping to play in my first club comp. on saturday morning so it will get a test then.

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

I like your posts. You are clearly a deep thinker with an intelligent approach to problem solving.

On top of that you take the trouble to share your thoughts and experiences in detail, and go to some considerable effort to communicate well.

No, there is no "But....." coming!

I just wish to say "Thank you" for your efforts and I hope that we soon get our fifty thread display, so that those such as you who unselfishly put in the effort get that little bit longer on the display board.

I personally like to see interesting art hung for a reasonable display period. I'm sure that many other readers do too.  Given full chance to read and, in turn, contribute their own thoughts.

Colin Coote

Thank you, but if we are not careful fellow members will put 2 & 2 together and start to talk.

I believe that when you try to explain a subject such as golf it is usually best to be precise and try not to leave to many details out.  I find that it is when you have to read between the lines you don't get a full account of what is being expressed.  Most times you should not take for granted that who you are trying to help know what basic detail you are leaving out because you expect them to know it.

i know i do not do everything in text book fashion, even though i have tried but found it impossible to achieve.  I know why i have to adapt my swing etc. to compensate for my physical state.  I strongly believe i am fully capable of reaching single handicap figures with what i know and how i use my physical ability to my benefit. 

Having to change my swing made me change my approach to playing the game it made me more aware of the importance of understanding my own swing etc. i had to rely on no one else but myself.  It made me realise that for me to play golf properly it is best played from the short grass with minimum hiking excursions into the forest onto the beaches into the hay fields into ditches or going for a swim  To do this i have to be accurate with my shots.  My aim is to always play a tidy game of golf.  

I have set myself a target in every round to play no more than a maximum number of shots from grass longer than the fairway height and excluding water and sand.

The starting number is 10 shots.  I will see if i have the self-control to shoot less than 10.

Dave ley

Colin,

I too enjoy your posts, as for missing left before you get carried away with the physics and science aspects of putting ,do you have a tendency to look left before you finish your stroke which wioll open your left shoulders? Its useually the reason I miss left and I put left low also .

As for putting my theory has changed recently and instead of thinking more about the putts i now think less a lot less . A definate improvement for me anyway.

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

Noted. I agree that kindness and courtesy are often misinterpreted in our sex obsessed culture.

But that's other peoples' problems not mine.

I'm quite happy with my wife and two sheep.

Colin Coote

Thanks Dave

At the moment i know my putting along with everything else is work in progress and the more shots i play i should see improvement with my feel for the putter, stance, ball position and alignment.  

I putt with a low left hand and my ball position is in centre of my stance so as to help counter having a shorter right side. 

I take my putter straight back for my putts but for the very long putts i know my putter will naturally arc inside the line.  After contact my putter does come back inside the line naturally on follow through, so the further forward i have the ball in my stance, the greater the risk of closing the putter face on contact and hitting left.

I have added just over 20g of lead and taped it to my putter near to the toe.  i am going to be interested to see how this reacts. 

I expect it to take a while before i get the best out of my putter.  

My present target is to have less than 36 putts in a round.  That should not be difficult to attain.

The one major concern i have at the moment is that i forget i am playing off uneven Tees, i sometimes forget to check the position of my right foot.  If it is slightly below my left foot then my shots will go straight left of my aim.  if it is slightly  above my left foot it does not make any significant difference.  The same principle applies when i am putting.

So if i can minimise any detrimental impact my equipment brings to my game by using the best suited clubs etc. it will mean most adjustments made will be down to compensating for physical aspects and i will not be fighting one against the other.

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

Good stuff but it takes a lot of lead to make any bias difference.

I have no expertise on manipulating putters but I can say that that if one took a neutral driver it takes ** 25g + of side weight (on a 200g driver head) to induce say a significant draw. (Before anyone possibly innocently plays around doing this please be aware that adding so much weight can, in certain circumstances,  cause a shaft breakage.)

If one takes a 360g headed putter and moves it slowly on a very short shaft (which we all do) I would imagine that it would take a lot of weight in order to induce a false bias. I really do not know. Please let us all know what you discover. 

Speaking from unfortunate personal experience Colin do try and keep perspective. Improvement principally comes from extremely hard work, not from equipment tinkering or even from constant swing tinkering. It is only when one becomes highly proficient that the significance of one's equipment becomes vitally important.

I only tinker so much because I require every last ounce of performance out of my drivers by necessity. I have personally been involved in two Longdrive Championships where the winning spot has been decided by a yard and half a yard respectively. 

I started off with possibly some LD talent in 2007, and then spent two years undoing it with constant tinkering. Only now am I beginning to get it back again. I am only trying to help, not per se criticise. One can try far too hard on the analysis side.

As Jim F. advises - go with one's natural feel. It counts for a great deal.

 **   Tom Wishon's findings and my own findings. Yet, many golfers claim to be able to induce side spin with far less bias weight.

Colin Coote

thanks agains 'Sanderslongdrive'

I don't think we've met but now you say you have a wife and 2 sheep i think i might know your wife, does your wife originate from the south east of england, and if so was here name before she married you 'devon longwoolled'.

I suppose your 2 sheep are called 'corriedale' & 'drysdale'

lol

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

You know so much about me that I sqirm with embarrassment.

I'm not sure that I want everyone knowing so much detail about my family!

P.S. My wife's sister kindly provided us with a shagpile carpet as our wedding present. She couldn't stop shivering all day long.  

Colin Coote

i agree with you about tinkering.

all i am trying to achieve is getiing the putter head to be as near face-balanced as possible so that any misalignment can be associated with my mistake and not a problem with my equipment. Thereby it will be fixable.  At the endof the day, even correcting the balance of the putter may have no effect on the putter at all.  The problem may always be with the operator, which is more likely the case.

Anyway, less of my bleeting, you'll get plenty of that at home.

Bah bah for now

Colin Coote

i agree with you about tinkering.

all i am trying to achieve is getiing the putter head to be as near face-balanced as possible so that any misalignment can be associated with my mistake and not a problem with my equipment. Thereby it will be fixable.  At the endof the day, even correcting the balance of the putter may have no effect on the putter at all.  The problem may always be with the operator, which is more likely the case.

Anyway, less of my bleeting, you'll get plenty of that at home.

Bah bah for now

Loud Mouth b.a.

Colin,

You ought to be on the stage.  

Treat yourself to a new F/B putter and save yourself a lot of trouble!

Unlike drivers, a top putter can be purchased off the shelf.

Colin Coote

thats exactly what my drama teacher used to tell me when i was at school, then when she'd see you smile she'd say 'Painting it'.

I'm a tight fisted skin flint and we Yorkshire folk find it difficult spending our hard earned brass.  We can't spend it twice so we endeavour to spend it wisely in the first place.

The reason i got this cheap putter in the first place was to see if it complemented my putting stroke, and if not could i develop a putting stroke to suit a face balanced mallet putter.

If it works i will consider dipping into my bucket of loose change, problem is it is a deep but narrow bucket and i've only got short arms so i may have to look for a big discount.