I've had alittle bit of a trial and error breakthrough the last couple of days.....I'll keep testing it before I'm sure about it.

But one question for you guys is - what do you do with your right index finger (RH'ed golfers) during the downswing???

Once you get to understand the swing and its components Lewis you will find it acts as a pressure point (No 3) in the Power Loading for lag & thrust.

Hi Lewis,

Not heard of that before but I try not to think of anything, it just stays where it is.

The first thing I'll say is that what I'm about to say is by no means meant as advice to ANYBODY !

 I have a pretty constant issue with a fade and slice (like most new golfers I'm sure)

When looking back at myself on video my practice swings and 3/4 swings all look good and produce my best quality shots

On my full swings I seem to just push out alittle at the top and this sends my clubhead outside the line on the way down.

Yesterday I was just doing some pratice swings in my garden and I felt that as I was winding up the power I could feel grip pushing /moving against my right index finger, so I decided that when I was next playing (today) that I would just hold the right index finger bent a tad more firmly.

It took a few holes, but what it did was to produce more draws in one round than I ever had by a mile, this was with all clubs. My accuracy also went up and I hit the pin from 140 with my 7 iron and generally got closer to the pin (for me) within 180.

The only thing I can think this is doing is to help stop the clubhead flying out on the way down. Now I'm sure this is only a bad fix for a bad swing but it has helped me in the short term....or maybe I was letting this finger be too relaxed before today

I would be interested in your views

cheers

well done Lewis, you have found and learnt an important part of the swing, players with natural ability like Steve will perform that pressure point without thinking, you have discovered its integral process and after a while you will have developed a Neural Pathway that will become autonomous.

What ! you saying I don't have natural ability !!!!! cheek... ;-)

.....seriously, thanks for the encouragement Wayne. I always had my right thumb and index finger 'sealed' together where they join my hand - and I always had my right index finger (trigger finger) bent around the shaft. I just guess I was letting it straighten with the force of a full swing.

The other pressure points are, No 1 - The heel of the right hand where it touches either the left hand thumb or the clubshaft (depending on grip used) No 2 -The last 3 fingers of the left hand. No 4 - Wherever the straight left arm contacts the left side.

No 5 - The mind ???

No 6 - The wife ???

The right index finger plays no part in the swing and would not be missed if it were not there at all. In fact I would go so far as to say that one could do without the right thumb as well.

Grip pressure points. Last three fingers of the left hand. Middle two fingers of the right hand. No great pressure between the thumb and index finger of either hand.

Of course this was the thinking 50 years ago and things may well have changed since that time.

Tom Watson used to grip firmer with the last three fingers of the left hand when trouble was on the left and also used the slight strengthening of the middle two fingers on the right hand when needing to draw the ball.

John how you understand it is how I understand it too.....I'm not 'gripping the shaft with my  right index finger....I'm just sort of supporting it against the force of my downswing more than I was before................I think

If it is good enough for Tom Watson, then it is surely good enough for me and you, Lewis.

first of all where did i state the right index finger 'grips' the club?? i didnt!! and further more as all my comments are written surprising still tha+ they were misunderstood, pressure point No 3 - The first joint of the right hand index finger where it touches the clubshaft!!

John i have a great deal of respect for you and your ability to have played this game at a high standard, however Homer Kelley's findings which he published over 40 years ago in his book "The Golfing Machine" have stood the test of time and yet no-one has disproved this.

Wayne, I never said you stated that the index finger grips the club....I was merely making it clear that I was not gripping the club and using it as more of a brace during the downswing and that it seemed to help.

what you are doing Lewis is correct, and ive no doubt with your inquisitive mind will serve you well as your swing develops and you see your handicap drop

Wayne, there are literally thoudands of golf teachers and coaches who all teach differently and in my opinion there is no definitive method that is superior to the next one.

I never disagreed with your posts, just added my thoughts on this little index finger, which was being bandied about.

I was self taught and attained scratch, does that mean I was lucky or that I managed somehow to achieve a sound method that would later be put into words in a book.

You are now a golf professional instructor, but everything you are going to teach is someone elses thoughts on how the club should be swung. Relying on only one method, like The golfing machine, is not going to broaden your horizons in the coaching methods available to everyone today.

What I said about grip pressure was correct and in no way was it meant or inferred to go against anything you had written. If you felt what I said was incorrect then you were at liberty to explain to me why you thought so.

Whilst looking on the net at this index finger thing I found a very informative site that explains alot of what I do in detail.....it seems I have a hitting action rather than a swinging action - one thing I see alot on my videos is that on a full swing I straighten my right elbow out at impact....this is a typical hitting action as my main power source on the downswing is straightening the right arm and hitting the ball - as opposed to pulling with the left and swinging through impact.

This site also points to my original index finger question as one of the pressure points of a hitter.

 He also references Homer Kelley in relation to this

Very interesting and technical

http://perfectgolfswingreview.net

you are correct Lewis. John you have a sound method clarified by Homer Kelley, i am looking at all techniques and coaching methods because everyone learns differently through the methods of Audio, Visual or Kineasthetic. I do not dismiss TGM as it is not Homer's personal view but those of physics and geometry.

Lewis, there are millions of pages on the Internet on how to swing a golf club. One does not need to get too mechanical thinking about the swing as this will only produce a mechanical action and as we all know mechanical actions are just repetitive actions, which can make no allowances for the vartiations that will be required in your golfing career to cope with the many different positions and situations you will find yourself on the golf course. Simple is best and all one needs to know is the basics and then practise.

Don't know where lifeboating came from Matt, but very well put.

I also don't know what happens with my finger

I love talking to you guys...it always brings out the variations in life - and this is why I think this site is so very good.

JP I in general agree with you, I believe that golf should be a more of a feel game and something that you live rather than make.......it's why I enjoy my golf despite my current rubbish skill level - but one thing I have been struggling with is my swing action. I noticed something the other day in the garden and it has set me on a path (it may be fruitless) and it does seem that there are two types of swings....

a hitting swing, using the right hand to punch/push the ball, this seems to be employed in general more by stocky less athletic shaped people and a swingers swing, pulling down with the left hand.

in my action I had always though that I over use my right hand and I have alot of the 'things' in my swing that a hitter has BUT I also employ some swingers habits (my backswing is all swinger) and apparently this is a very hard thing to do well. So maybe I don't over use my right had.....maybe my natural swing is a hitters swing and maybe I need to simplify it to not be a mix of both. This may work ...it may not but I'll have fun in the process.

Hogan in his time was called the mechcanical man because he worked so hard to get a repeatable solid swing.....his natural swing was very bad! and if nothing else I'm learning more about the game and my own limits

Everyone swings the club, Lewis, just that some seem to do it showing little effort.

Using one hand as the dominant one is not advisable as the chances of hitting it straight are greatly reduced. I have always felt and believed that impact is made with both hands at the same time and with the same strength, achieved by keeping the left wrist firm throughout impact to prevent the stronger right hand taking over.

Hogan may have been mechanical, but not for the reasons you are thinking. It was because he simplified the swing into a few basic movements, practiced like hell and reproduced a flawless golf swing that was the envy of everyone at the time. In other words he could hit the ball to wherever he wanted to and that usually meant down the fairway and on to the green in regulation. Something we see very rarely these days.

I might add that his very bad swing, as you put it, was never altered by him, just slight changes to the positions at certain places within the swing coupled with some very minor grip changes. Basing your swing on his would be a good choice in my oinion. Try and find some footage of Peter Thomson the great Australian player who won our Open I believe five times. One of the great swingers of a golf club.

Yes, he did win it five times and came second to Hogan in '53 - he seems like a nice chap to in the interviews I've seen, he grew up around all the greats of their time that we seem to remember -  bridging the Hogan,Snead era and Nicholas etc

Just back from a long session at the range and it is definatly doing something, I was hitting alot straighter and went through a period of about 8 or 9 shots whereby I had to aim somewhat right as the draw was taking the ball nicely left. My accuracy went up noticably also.

Still early days and I'll try and get out tomorrow morning on the course to see if I'm just imagining it.

Your not imagining it Lewis, what you may find is that your perception as to what your doing heightens and therefore you will develop "feel" and not only start to hit the ball better but also consistantly and then you can work on your short game to get close to the pin reducing your handicap as you do.