In my humble opinion......definately not.

I've had lessons from four different PGA qualified golf instructors now and only one came anywhere near giving what I would call "a good lesson". Three of them were really nice blokes and I would have no hesitation in inviting them to a bbq but I wasn't paying hard cash to meet nice blokes. The fourth was just the most negative person I have ever met and had nothing good to say about anything or anybody.

Whilst I have no doubt that all are top class golfers, the problem seems to lie in an inability to deliver a lesson and break it down into bite sized understandable chunks. It is one thing to have knowledge but quite another to impart it to others and I fear not enough emphasis is placed on this aspect when the PGA awards them their teaching qualifications.

Maybe it's because I am a teacher by profession but I really do feel like the Pro's I've had lessons from could benefit themselves by taking a course on basic lesson delivery, covering basic things such as explanation, demonstration, imitation and practice.

Bring on the Santo!

But John, Phil asked if good golfers make good teachers.

Phil, it is unfortunate that you have had this experience, but you have to take into account that in all probability these PGA professionals failed to make the grade themselves or are like some assistants who are never going to make the grade but have gone through the PGA course and feel that they have the right to take money and give lessons.

None of these things will ever give anyone the ability to pass on knowledge unless they themselves were an expert in any particular field.

To be able to put someone on the right path requires the skill to be ablke to diagnose the problem correctly. My experience tells me that very few have this ability.

When you add in the fact that they could not care less whether or not you improve should tell you something.

I have helped many people play this game well but I don't consider myself a teacher, more a coach, as I never attempt to alter ones swing just ensure that they include the basic fundamentals within the swing they already have.

There are some on this forum who, I feel, have benefited from my short and sharp pieces of advice, and if they didn't, then I am sure they will let you know.

John I wonder if I might pick your brains.

The last PGA Pro I saw (this week) was to try and cure a horrible slice when using my driver. He advised using a "stronger" grip (ie turning my wrist AWAY from the target with left thumb runing down the grip between 1 and 2 oclock and standing further away from the ball).  Today when my "Todays Golfer" magazine arrived one of the tips was to use a weaker (ie turn the wrist more towards the target) grip to cure a slice. I know you havent seen my swing and that I am putting you on the spot but any advice would be most welcome.

The pro was correct in saying that turning the left wrist away from the target will make it a stronger grip, but that, in my opinion will not be your problem. Only a good player can make subtle grip changes for different effects.

Your problem is one that is common to all those who take this game up and that is you are coming across the ball on the downswing causing you to slice. A good pro should have noticed this immediately and corrected it. The fact that four different ones have been unable to put you right is, I'm afraid what you get these days from the average club pro. It would take me less than ten minutes to have you swinging on a path, that will not only delight you, but set you up for life.

South Yorkshire is too far for me to be able to help you personally but we do have a very good player and ex professional up in Leeds by the name of David Lythgoe, who I am quite sure would look you over and put you on the right path. He is a moderator on this forum so when he comes online I suggest you ask him if he would be willing to have a look at you.

It is most important as a beginner to get correct instruction so that progress becomes more rapid.

I think this grip change you mentioned Phil is something many teaching pro's use for  effect, the pupils tend to see results quickly therefore they think they are cured.The under lying problem is usually a swing path problem, as John mentioned, and/or failure to release the hands through the swing.A change of grip sorts niether of these out, as I have found out to my cost.  

Tony, fully agree.  I've used grip tweaks in the past to help alleviate slice problems the longer the clubs get.

I've also had some minor swing tweak suggestions from someone on golfshake to correct swing path and has a much greater affect!

I wonder if Phil slices with his irons too?

The common problem, as soon as somebody gets a driver in their hands, is to try and hit the hell out of the ball, instead of having the same swing tempo as with the irons. When you try to hit too hard the swing goes out of sync and the shoulders turn around the body and this causes the slice.

But, like John said, without seeing what it is you do, in person, it's difficult to assess the cause.

P.S.  That's 50 guineas you now owe me Phil

Thanks for all the suggestions. I really appreciate your comments.

I don't slice with my irons and usually hit them very straight although I do stand close to the ball with them and have my hands very close to my body and well ahead of the ball, thus attaining accurate shots but not massive distance.

The 50 guineas is in the post David

Just my two pennies worth on this one. From personal experience as an instructor (NOT GOLF) you have to understand some basics about the student. These include: What does he / she want to achieve, is his / her target realistic is the improvement sustainable and the most important of all I M O is what level is he / she at now.

The lessons then need to be along the very best basic known teaching methods. The simplest of all is: E D I P Explanation, Demonstration, Imitation and PRACTICE. 

On the golf side with your original comments, if your swing plane and path are way out of kilter no amount of grip changes will cure that, BUT, it might change your shot shape during that particular lesson, but the fault is still there. See sustainable above. I hope this makes some sense to you all.

Phil,

In answer to your question, the answer has to be "No, not all the time".

You, as a teacher work to a Curriculum, so do most of the PGA Pro's that I call 'The Teachers'. Also many people go to a PGA Pro expecting instant improvement and when it doesn't happen, they blame the Pro.

You must have heard the joke about six year old Johnny, upon being told that 3+1=4, he is totally confused because he has only just learned that 2+2=4. The result is the same, but the way to it is different. This is the same with learning Golf, so seek out a PGA Pro who call themselves a Coach. They will then help you to put together a game that will help you enjoy the experience. Looking at your Blog and scores its seems that you may be expecting things too quick and easy. Changing your clubs on a regular basis will not help, you need to build a consistency into your game. You need to know roughly how far you hit each club. Its no use hitting a good shot with your Callaway 8iron that flies over the green because "last time I hit from here, my Hogen 8iron was OK".

My advice to you would be to split your Game into two. Part One, practice to gain a consistant strike and gain some control of where your ball goes. This is done on The Range. Part Two, is to learn how to get round the course. Learn the Rules (they do help you out there) and learn to keep the ball in play. Hitting a 5iron that you know will get you on the fairway 7\10 times is better than hitting Driver which you lose 7\10 times.

TheLyth 

Couldn't have put it better myself Lyth

Very eloquent, indeed, only wish I had the same ability to write in a more coherent fashion. I also agree with The Lyth.

David I think you have missed the point of my post.

I did have 3 quick changes to my clubs, the first because the heads kept falling of the cheap initial set I bought and the second because the chance of upgrading to Callaway irons was one too good to miss. I have worked hard with these clubs and DO know how far I can hit each one. I also fully understand about course management and the importance of keeping the ball in play.

Being pretty accurate with my 3 wood and happy with the distance I can hit it, I decided to try my hand with the driver again (having decided long ago to leave it in the garage for a while).

The whole point of my post was I booked a lesson with a PGA Pro specifically aimed at getting me started with my driver and was quite disappointed at the way the lesson was presented. It should't matter whether you are giving a lesson on swinging a golf club or grooming a dog - there are certain elements that need to be there if the student is to have any chance of achieving the lesson objective, and time after time I have found these elements to be missing in lessons from PGA qualified teaching pro's.

Phil, it is obvious to me that you are really interested in playing the game better than you currently are doing.

Your experiences with the professional route has obviously been disconcerting and I can understand why, as they do tend to  give one a fault to correct a fault, instead of curing the fault that is causing the problem. Of course this fault has to be diagnosed correctly in the first place and this is where they do tend to fall down.

As you will have had much experience of gleaning information from books, being a teacher, then may I suggest that you purchase, or loan from the library, a decent book on the fundamentals of this game. Ben Hogan wrote an exceptional one but I do not know whether or not this is still in print.

Phil,

If you had come to me when I was working as a PGA Teaching Pro I wouldn't have had you hitting Driver. If you came along shooting 110+ asking for help hitting Driver, I wouldn't have had you hitting Driver.

You say you are hitting everything BUT your Driver OK and a good distance, yet you have still to break 100. I have known guys get down to 15 Hcp before they were comfortable with a Driver in their hands, after all it is the hardest club to learn to hit consistently.

I don't understand your comment about elements missing from your lessons with a PGA Pro. How do you know they were missing? It seems that you may be expecting too much. I would forget your Driver until you have more control over the other clubs in your bag and your scores are into the low 90's.

TheLyth

I agree with you David,

I've started to appreciate course management more lately & have been leaving the driver in the bag on a few holes now to guarantee accuracy. I'm only losing about 20yrds so on shorter holes it makes sense.

I think there is a bit of bravado or male testorone when it comes to hitting driver, if all your mates are doing it you wanna join in.

John.

david

is there a limit to the amount of words in a post ?

have sat for an hour now TWICE trying to reply to you but on both ocacasions when i pressed "submit".........................nothing

Phil, there is no limit to the amount of words in a post, but sometimes the site does not always accept the post when you press submit, meaning, of course that all the wonderful words you have spent some time writing are lost.

May I suggest that when you write a long post, that prior to submitting it, you should copy it to the clipboard so that, if the site plays up and does not accept the post, at least you can try again.

Hi Phil,

i'm sorry you had some poor lessons of fellow PGA Pros, it would be interesing to find out how long the guys have been qualified for if at all, were they still in their training?

You will generally find that the better coaches are ones that focus solely on teaching, when I first turned pro I did so because I wanted to play and get on tour and you will find that a lot of trainees and recently qualified pros will be wanting the same.

The PGA does train us in explanation, demonstration, application, the problem is we have to learn about business, repairs, rules and a host of other stuff as well. All this takes place in 3 years whilst fully employed at a golf club as well.

My suggestion to you would be find a pro that focuses solely on teaching, even if you have to drive for 45 minutes. Try and find out a bit about them - how long they have been teaching, how long at their current place, do they have a website etc. At the first lesson let them know exactly what you are looking for, hcap goals, consistency etc and hopefully they will give you a programme that wil match your needs.

Expect to pay upto £50 per hour but think of the satisfaction when in 6 months time you have knocked 10 shots off your hcap.

Happy Golfing in the New Year everyone

SteveCowleGolf

Top advice as always Steve. Thanks and a Happy New Year to you and all other Golfshakers

Do good golfers make good teachers?  No reason why they should, and in my opinion there is no more reason that a pro will be any better than a hacker as a teacher.  I appreciate the point that Steve is trying to make about being taught how to teach but I think that misses the point.  Unless someone has a talent for teaching then it's irrelevant how good they are at playing because different pupils need different approaches.

As an example I read Steve's blog on ball flight, which I thought was a well composed and written piece, clear and concise.  However (and not a criticism Steve) for me, as an engineer, it's just too lightweight.  I would have liked to have seen a more detailed analysis of the flight dynamics and their relationship to the mechanics of the ball strike, but I realise that would be pointless for most people.  And that really is my point, my engineering background has given me the insight into the mechanics and dynamics of golf which probably far exceeds that of most pros, but as I'm not a good player should it preclude me from being a teacher?

Apart from the fact that I was a notoriously bad tutor when I was called upon to do it in engineering, and apparently instilled fear rather than confidence. 

Any competent Golfer can "Teach" a novice. That novice can also learn a lot from DVD's and Books.

But, once you get to a certain level you need the experts, the guys who can see your faults and provide solutions. These guys also need to be able to discuss matters with you on the same Wave-length. I used to enjoy finding ways of passing on information in relation to my pupils expertise.

Today the Top Golfers are so far ahead of the rest, some tweak their swing in a manner that alot of PGA Pro's wouldn't pick up on.

Improvement is not hitting the ball straighter and further, its hitting more 'Good ones' and less 'Bad ones'. A complete beginner will hit one 8iron 135yds, but that will be from 100 attempts. As they get better, that 135yd 8iron is still the best but it will come from only 50 attempts.

TheLyth