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Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert

Posted by: user24437 | Fri 23rd Feb 2007 00:15 | Last Reply

Was thinking about something David told me at the N v S comp about using softer balls (Pro V's against my DDH's), and how it was easy to tell which ones were hard by bouncing them on concrete - basically the harder they are the higher pitched sound they made when they bounced. So there I was this afternoon with the compulsory shopping bag full of pick up golf balls and got to wondering if it was possible to measure, and quantify, the difference (don't worry, I'm an engineer and think about this sort of thing). Tried measuring the bounce back height, but that was a bit random. It was OK for really soft versus really hard, but it wasn't particcularly scientific. So I got an old microphone, plugged it into the PC and started running my Audacity recording software and bounced a ball from about half a metre and got it's sound trace. Did it with several types and you can measure the hardness by the difference in the spike it makes! Softest so far is a Callaway Big Bertha, followed by the ProV and the Ultra. Hardest so far is Top Flite. Question is, have I finally gone over the edge and why would I think anyone would be interested?

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user926 [FORUM MODERATOR]
Reply : Fri 23rd Feb 2007 13:17

Tim - Where did Maxfli noodles come in your test?? What a great way to spend afternoon. Bouncing golf balls next to a mic. Superb

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Fri 23rd Feb 2007 13:43

Not got any noodles in the bag so I'll keep my eye out tomorrow. Have got a Pinnacle Exception which is meant to be a low 70's compression. It's sound profile is virtually identical to the Callaway Big Bertha. The ProV 1x is about 8% harder (so that would be a 78), but the ProV comes out at 12% (80). Apparently this means it compresses up to 0.12" (3mm!) under test driver conditions (presumably high swing speed). The pinnacle should compress about 0.142" (3.6mm). On a pro rata basis this means that the Top Flite XL2000 tops the list as a 121 compression (1.98mm) and my DDH's at 91 (2.7mm).  Please stop me now.

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user23840
Reply : Fri 23rd Feb 2007 18:05

Deary me Timothy.

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user41897
Reply : Sat 24th Feb 2007 13:30

It's being an engineer mate - we are all the same.Have you taken into account how the ball lands on the dimple pattern and how this affects the bounce. How many tests do you carry out on each ball on which to get a statistical mean.I look forward to reading your research paper in the appropriate technical journal in due courseI'm a civil variety of engineer - what type be you?Andy  

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user23840
Reply : Sat 24th Feb 2007 14:53

I'm afraid so David.

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Mon 26th Feb 2007 18:11

Andy I'm a mechanical Engineer, although I have dabbled in a bit of Civil, mostly to do with vibration effects on large buildings. I specialised in Thermodynamics for a while but now just mess about doing drawings. Just to say that the dimples will have virtually no effect on the sound print, that's the beauty of the test. The outer skin should flex enough (even with the hardest balls) to ensure that there is almost 100% contact. Interestingly, doing the same test from a height of 1m gives virtually the same results, just a larger amplitude to the spike. The other factors such as the out of balance and and eccentricity have no bearing on the test because the impact force will always be directly through the centre of the mass. The only problem I had was making sure the ball hit the concrete in the right place, because my eyesight was severely affected by a hangover. Did find a Noodle at the weekend so look forward to further tests. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user42974
Reply : Mon 26th Feb 2007 18:33

Dave pelz could not do any better Tim

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Tue 27th Feb 2007 01:14

Funny you should mention that David.  Am intending to make 3D model of my Big Ben driver and run a bit of finite element analysis on it.  The only real factor will be the club head speed at impact I suspect, although the transition between the ball compression reverting to round and the spring of the club face may prove significant.  It all depends on the relative recovery rate of the ball shape to the club face, if this is low then shaft whip may come into play.

Still can't hit short irons though.  Bugger.  

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Tue 27th Feb 2007 13:41

Hmmm...

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user55694
Reply : Tue 19th Jun 2007 13:16

My brain hurts!!!!

good posts though

Liam

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user9368
Reply : Thu 21st Jun 2007 21:49

Cant believe i missed this interesting post 1st time round. Well done Liam for resurecting it.

Tim since your initial thesis have performed any further studies? I am most interested in whether you have tested several balls of the same model to (1) establish which ball has the highest Cpk & (2) Prove the reliability of your test procedure

Also can you determine the age or degredation of a ball using this technique? Which balls do you think last the longest?

Keep up the good work

Col

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user8 [FORUM MODERATOR]
Reply : Thu 21st Jun 2007 22:05

Tim if you revive this interesting research, let me know and I'll come run with my video camera

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user9368
Reply : Thu 21st Jun 2007 22:14

That would be great but you must both wear comedy Einstein wigs when you do it. Priceless

 

Col


Last edit : Thu 21st Jun 2007 22:32
re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user23840
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 09:27

And do silly einstien voices.

Im in tears here.


Last edit : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 09:28
re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 12:32

Fairy intershtink

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user23840
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 12:44

Exactly

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user23840
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 12:44

Exactly

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 13:50

Sorry everyone, but this genius couldn't figure out how to post a picture and had to get top level help (Darren) to do it for me.

This is what the traces look like for a Dunlop DDH, Titleist NXT and TopFlite XL

Balls

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 14:48

Dunno, must have been when the dog stole the ball

 

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 15:23

OK, it's a fair cop.

The trace is a waveform of the bounce off the impact platten (brick), measuring the magnitude (not the sound density, that's the dB trace which I haven't included).  I've assumed that this is part made up of the resonance of the ball and the 'echo' thorugh the brick.  The more dense the trace the longer the echo propogates inside the brick, meaning that more of the energy of the ball is transfered.  As the striking face is stationary it is therefore inversely proportional to the amount of energy that would be transfered to the ball, hence a longer distance for a given club face speed.

Basically I assume that the trace is made up of three salient components.  The initial dip is the energy transfer from the ball, most probably inversely proportional to the ball deformation (hence the NXT crushes more on impact).  The inverse spike is therefore the energy replacement back into the ball (so again the NXT retains more kinetic energy).  The length and decay of the trace is therefore the composite effects of the energy transfer.

 The Dunlop DDH therefore (far left) is pretty hard but decays quite slowly, equating to a hard case ball but with the ability to store a lot of energy (so would retain, amongst other things, more spin).  The NXT (middle) is softer, won't drive as far but spin more and the Top Flite (far right) has the characteristics of a marble.

 Would do more research but, a) the dog keeps running off with the balls and has now taken to barking at the microphone and, b) I seem to be losing balls on the golf course too often.

 Anyone still awake?

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Fri 22nd Jun 2007 15:25

I suggest that anyone interested in funding more research should send me packs of a dozen brand new premium balls (no rubbish) and I'll carry on.  Will also help with point b) in the above post.

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user9368
Reply : Wed 9th Apr 2008 19:11

My favourite post ever, just briunging it back for the newcomers to see how mad the golfshake members really can be

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Wed 9th Apr 2008 19:21

Who you calling mad?

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user33026 [FORUM MODERATOR]
Reply : Thu 10th Apr 2008 16:04

Tim, fantastic mate.  I hadn't seen this before and as a fellow engineer (aerospace - I design and redesign planes) read with great interest until Waynes "why are there more squiggles post at which point I couldn't stop laughing for the rest of it. 

What is the latest on this critical research?

re: Measuring golf ball hardness - nerd alert
user24437
Reply : Thu 10th Apr 2008 17:18

Chris

Didn't know you were one of us kerosene heads.  Doing something at Boing at the moment?

Research has stopped for the moment, my plea for large boxes of premium balls fell on deaf ears.  If work didn't keep getting in the way the project 231 putter is next up!

 


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