Golf forum

after playing too half decent rounds this week, today i played the final round of three to be forward for my golfshake handicap. got to the course only to find i was behind three very basic groups of players.

the first group called me through, for which im gratefull, but the other two groups would not budge for love nor money, for example having stood near the one group on the 17, totting up there scores the one lad had 168, and i felt everyone of thoses shots

golf ettiquette asks for slow plays to "call through" but as a golfer do you have the right to declare that you are going to play through a they were determinded not to allow us.

this had a big effect on my game, and i know were not supposeed to let it effect us but i challenge anyone to say that its dosen't effect there game. please enlighten me!

I hope you were not a single player determined to force your way through everyone in sight.

Personally I make every effort to make sure that if the course is full of fourballs then I attempt to make up a four with whoever is around. I never play on my own as it is no fun for me and only spoils the games of those in front who get a complex because they know they would be holding me up.

I blame the clubs, tee times should be alocated to cater for two balls and threee/fourballs so that this situation does not arise. IMO singles have no standing and most clubs still maintain that rule.

as i refer back to my quote "they were determind not to let US play through. but as someone who doubles up regularly, or goes out by thereselfs to practise i dont see the problem? and as you put it yourself its just you against the course.

 but when your one tee waiting with the group infront of you and the same person takes three different tee shots with three different balls, in my opinion "thats taking the piss".

also john having just read your previous posts on single player matters, i must say your outlock towards your fellow golfers is wrong!!!!

 were all here to ENJOY our own games. i myself & my game inparticular should not effect anyone elses, isn,t that how ettiquite works, whether it be a fourball, or single player. but as i said having just read your pevious posts on the matter,

you are 71 and i respect that you have been playing along time, but that type of attitude is killing the game in todays enviroment. i have three children, another one the way, work 60hrs a week. my time as everyone time is valuable.

my point is for the group infront of us to let us play through(5mins) out of there game. for us works out 60mins effect they had on our game. you do the maths.

 i dont wish to offend anybody but stubborness from golfers like this is just stupid. we all have a right to play to the best of our abilities, and have manners at the same time.

Paul,

Did you ask?  I've been held up before and usually a simple request to be allowed through is enough.  If they say no (only happened to me once) then a couple of holes of my ball rolling past them as they take five minutes deciding whether it is a 9 iron or a pitching wedge they want to shank 20 yards soon gets the message over. 

John, I agree that wherever possible single players should join up, but sometimes circumstances don't allow this (only doubled up twos and four balls on the course).  The R & A now say that single players have the same standing and I have to agree with that.  Like Paul I work and have a family and sometimes I like to just do 9 holes after a hard (or crappy) day and occaisionally would prefer to have some 'me' time and play by myself.  I'm sure there are many others in the same position.  Whilst members only clubs are likely to frown on singles, especially as there are always other members to join up with, my experience is that clubs that allow you to pay and play give all players the same standing as per the R & A rules.  That said, they generally ask you to join up with another group if feasible. 

We've had this debate many times before and it often gets heated, so that's all I have to say on the subject (unless someone offends my honour and challenges me to a duel).

hi chris, i did ask but they reply was "there,s a group infront" & "were not that slow anyway". on the first comment they never got within half a hole of the next group which is why i had the thought of asking: " SORRY LADS BUT I,M PLAYING THROUGH ON THIS HOLE OK" in a way declaring my intention. i like to think that i,m a pleasant gent and was brought up always minding my manners. thats i questioned if i have a right to do so!

chris on everything you said i agree with, i think the attitude of some more experienced players, towards newer, modern day golfers, needs to be looked at! how on earth do they expect the game to progess and continue long after they,ve gone. golf as with other sports are changing, equipment, ruling,players, technique,etc, but in other sports such as football were progression is welcomed, in golf progression(change) is met with the attitude of the above.

WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO ENJOY AND PLAY THE WONDERFUL SPORT TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITIES WERE CONSIDERING YOUR FELLOW GOLFER FIRST.

thats my view anyway, as long as when busy we keep up with the group infront there shouldn,t be a problem

Playing golf on your own once in a while has to be one of life's greatest pleasures. The "single player has no status" rule is quite ridiculous.

No-one's ever there to see my good ones when i play alone though...!

Simon.....Under the Rules of golf 2008 - 2010.. Page 28 - Definitions. A single player does now have status.

Regarding players not letting you play through...This is so dependant on how busy the course is. Take Paul's case, for example.  He doesn't say if there was another group in front of the slow players, or if the players behind him were stacking up, if there were then the course was no doubt very busy. If not, then ask the group if you can play through and explain why..I.E. They are holding up the other groups behind.

It never ceases to amaze me, when I ask to be let through, how many people turn round and say "I didn't think it was allowed, to let people play through"    But if you ask nicely, I have never had a problem

Chris, the R & A may have introduced the single player now has standing into the etiquette of the game, but I am quite sure you will find that the majority of Golf Clubs, will still state in their interpretation of the etiquette, that a single player has no standing.

Paul, believe it or not, I too have fathered five children, worked exceptionally long hours as an international trucker away from home for periods of three/four weeks at a time, so your sob story about the pressures you face in trying to get a game in, just don't wash.

I just would not dream of going onto a golf course as a single player and expect that I should charge through the field because of it. The fact that you do, tells me that you could not give a monkeys about the enjoyment of the game of others on the course, in front of you.

Golf is a social game, but it appears to me that too many of these newer,modern day golfers, as you put it, think that it is OK to spoil other peoples enjoyment of the game, just as long as theirs is not disrupted.

Another  detrimental aspect of the modern game is the length of time it takes modern progressive players to get round a golf course. The days of 36 hole competitions in one day has long gone, they now have to be played over two days and all because this modern day golfer just cannot move himself fast enough, cannot swing a club without hovering over the ball for an age, stay rooted to the spot wqhen putting, leaves trollies at the front of the green and mark scorecards before leaving the green.

Have you ever considered that what you consider progress in the game is in actual fact detrimental in many ways. The standards of dress are becoming even more slovenly as time goes on, changes to the handicap system have allowed people to play competitively without having to bother to learn the game, as we quite often see when some societies are in front of you on the course.

Simon, the old single player rule, still adopted by the majority of proper golf clubs, is not ridiculous at all,it was introduced for a purpose and if anyone fails to see what that is, then I am wasting my time even discussing it.

Just a small hypothetical question to all of you doubters, supposing I started behind one of your society get togethers with say a field of twenty, i.e five fourballs, would you, in all honesty, allow me, as a single player to force my way through you all. I very much doubt it.

john listen and listen good as this is the last time i will address you!!! i find you very arrogant, rude,etc: firsty i have no sob story to tell, secondly i DO NOT enter a course then barge through the field at all! get ofF your SOAPBOX!!! i always have respect for any fellow golfer of any ablility, thirdly: i was playing a two-ball, and finally my game never effected the very slow group infront of US.

my question simply stated where in the future- when/if WE get stuck behind a very slow group of players of poor ability do i have a polite/respectfull way of playing through them if they are unwilling to allow US?

john i have had 24hrs of your attitute towards others and checking back through the forums i,m not the only one. i would appreciate it if you kept well away from myself as  your attitude torwards golfers different to your much loved/very high standard four-ball with your head up your own backside, is to say the least... disgusting basically my blood boils once your on your hyde park soapbox. you only read what you want to read, make assumptions that have no basis, you are the angry golfer in the back of todays golfer every month. goodbye

Seems you have lost control then, Paul, one should learn to keep ones emotions in check, especially when on a golf course, as your attitude is likely to get you into trouble.

Everything I said, I meant, and if you feel differently, then you are quite at liberty to put forward your case, but it seems that you are unable to do so without resorting to yobbish behaviour.

Please remember that if I wish to answer yours or any others posts on here, then I am at liberty to do so until the owners remove me from the forum. Unfortunately for you what I say is the truth, and we all know that hurts. Goodbye to you.

you do not know me, make personal statements about myself with know knowledge of what your on about ie: me.

my emotions,attitude torwards others is second to none, every statement i,ve made as been to get a better understanding of the ettiqutte of the game. your talking about me as if i,ve fired balls at people, been aggressive to others, i challenge you to point out in the examples i gave of the original thread were i have been "yobbish" YOU CANT BECAUSE I HAVEN,T. YOU CANT BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW ME ALOT, AND ON THAT BASIS ALONE, SHOULD NOT TRY TO JUDGE ME! THIS SITE IS ABOUT GOLF/GOLFERS. WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU FIND A SOB STORY FROM, WHEN I WAS SIMPLY POINTNG IN TODAYS CLIMATE LIFE MOVES AT A FASTER PACE!

YOU COULD SAY A SOB STORY OF YOURS COULD BE IN SOME OF YOUR OTHER THEADS WHERE YOU SAY " YOU CANNOT PLAY TO YOUR DESIRED STANDARD AS YOUR BODY WILL NOT DO WHAT YOUR MIND WANTS TO" I PERSONALLY HAVING MANNERS WOULD NOT " ATTACK" YOU FOR THAT, BUT SIMPLY POINT OUT I DONT KNOW THERE FORE SHOULD NOT ATTACK YOU PERSONALLY.

I ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION, YOU THEN DIVED OF THE DEEP END, RANTING ABOUT SINGLE PLAYERS.... MAYBE ITS JUST YOUR AGE JOHN?????

I must say that I agree with John on this one - as I sometimes play on my own for practise in the evening, but if I catch any other three- or four-balls up I then deliberately slow down and either play more balls per hole or practice putting on the greens to pass the time away, or just leave the course. I never consider that I should barge on through them because I'm a single ball. And I never consider playing on my own during peak periods as single-balls are a golf administrator's nightmare causing all sorts of hold-ups.

If I visit another course by myslelf - as I am inclined to do from time-to-time - I try to get a game with an existing two-ball, three-ball or single as it makes for an infinitely more enjoyable round.

I also agree with you regarding slow play - I've been behind players who have had numerous lessons off the Pro and adopted a painfully lengthy routine which they religiously carry out for every shot with at best limited success, and they turn what should be a 4 hour round maximum to a 5 hour plus round.

kevin i agree with everything you have said,  my point was as we spent 16 out 18 tees together with the group in front, and obviously our abilities were different and we had the smaller group. the format on the scorecard: for slow play to be avoided at all times, smaller groups are to to allowed through. that rather than walk off the course, we should have been allowed to play through.

if i,m in the wrong i would accept that, but at the time the evidence pointed in favour of playing through!! i would never impose myself upon someone in the way i feel i,ve been judged to have done. also i would never want to be a negative memory to a fellow golfer.

John,

I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows that two of your pet golfing hates are slow play and singles on the course.  With regards to singles, I do not believe, as some have suggested that it is "the old guard fighting against change", but just a firm belief that our wonderful sport is one of society not seclusion.  I'm sure that you know me well enough to take my following comments exactly in the manner I mean them; with respect from a fellow golfer who wants everyone to enjoy this game and all it encompasses, but not at the expense of others. 

I know the subject of single golfers gets your back up and this can cause your words to come across as much more abrasive than you intend as it is a subject you feel passionate about.  To ths end, can I suggest that you bite your lip (or I suppose fingers) and allow your thoughts to cool before posting when the subject comes up?  "Debates" typically are with persons new to this forum who are unaware of your triggers and when they are ignited the fight or flight response is initiated with them.  This causes them to either apologise profusely for upseting you or kick back as Paul did.  As for those of us not so green to the site, and especially those that have had the pleasure to hold a conversation with you face to face, know that you are not spoiling for a fight and are just being passionate about your beliefs. 

This is nothing more than a suggestion.  I am not attempting to silence or censor your thoughts and input.  As you have rightly said, this forum is for all to have their say and air their views, and many, including myself, have served their country to defend that right.  All I am suggesting is by taking a couple of moments to consider your words, the debate could be held in a tone where the focus stayed on the subject at hand rather than questioning each others personality. 

Paul, I do not know you well enough to comment on your personality, so my comments are merely supposition from an outsider based on observation of recent posts (this thread and others).  You unwittingly pulled John's trigger.  He responded by unwittingly pulling yours.  Result - conflict and, dare I say it, agression.  When John's back is up he is the voice of reasoned argument, turning your own words against you and adding a subtle twist of the knife (you would've made a fine politican John!).  You Paul are more 'direct' in your venting.  Both styles further aggrevates the other. 

It would appear that a simple misunderstanding at the beginning of the thread has led to two people rubbing each other up the wrong way.  I would suspect that if the two of you met without realising each other's identity you would probably get along quite well.  We all want to use this forum to talk golf, Tim's latest invention, Santo's latest fashion faux pas, Darren's failure to respond to e-mails and phone calls, plus other various nonsense.  None of use wish it to be used as a means to insult, defame or discredit others (barring a couple of courses and retailers for the information of others).  To this end, can I suggest that we resolve the matter by ending this thread and starting again?

chris, thank you for your comments.... i agree and therefore will not raise the question again(lesson learn,t) your should have been a u.n. peacekeeper... i hear geogia are on the look out for a few good men at the moment.

john, beening fairly new to the sport(12months) i wish for a greater understanding of the game. therefore i had a question i simply wanted clarity on, to know where i stood in future. i think you got alittle of track by assuming i was alone, i wasn't. but in my opinion if i were, it wouldn,t be a problem. but thats my opinion. you are entitled to yours!!! if i offended you in any way......then i appologise...but in future and this is NOT directly aimed at you but all of us. there is no need for any of us to get personal in a heated debate. we should stick to the debate. i hope we can continue using this site with no hard feelings towards each other..... regards Paul.

Paul, it is impossible to offend me, especially on a forum, after all is said and don, a forum is for an exchange of views not to attempt to get others to change theirs.

Being old school I have seen the changes that have occurred in this game over a period of 55 years and IMO they have not been good ones, for many reasons which I will not go into at the moment.

Everyone used to walk and carry their bags, a fourball took just three hours to go round and the standards were far higher because handicaps were pegged at a maximum of 24 and only 7/8ths allowed for stableford, 3/4 the difference for matchplay and full handicap only for medals.

As a newcomer you will be guided by what you see in your immediate surroundings and the players you play with, but it may not be the education you are looking for.

The etiquette of the game was introduced so that everyone, no matter their ability, would be able to play together without any kind of friction.

I am usually the first one to let a faster group or even a single player through as I don't like to be pressed, especially when I am playing with players who are not the fastest. In fact I play with quite a few young men who seem to take an age over everything, slowing the game down and putting pressure on me as I hate to hold anyone up.

I have never demanded to be let through, as I feel that it is encumbent on those in front to assess the situation themselves and hopefully make the right decision. Most of the time these days it is a waste of time as they become totally immersed in their own game and have no consideration for anyone else on the course. Something we just have to accept.

You can certainly play as a single player at my club, but you would have no standing and should not expect to be able to charge through the field upsetting everyone elses game, just because you are on your own. You may disagree with this, of course and I would not dream of attemting to change your view.

I don't hold grudges, Paul, so what has passed between us has already been forgotten.

Such hot tempers!

I would say that with 75% of my games, I play solo. Mainly due to having to arrange them at very short notice. When on the course I have no pre-conceptions of whether players ahead should let me play through, though in reality many realise that I play faster then them and if there is nobody ahead, they often let me play through and receive humble appreciation from myself. Once through they usually don't see me again after the following hole.

More often than not, what usually happens is that if the group in front of me are less than a 4-ball and not a bunch of chavs, I'll join their group and play the rest of the course with them for the company.

If a course decides that it will ignore the R&A Rules on solo players having equal standing now, isn't that in itself against the rules of golf? Obviously I appreciate that societies and competitions cannot let anyone play through, as this would interfere with their block movement around the course. No complaints from me there.

Chris, though I applaud your attempt to smooth the torrent waters on this topic, I do not feel suggesting potentially dangerous play (earlier post) as a means of 'hinting' to slower players in front is good etiquette; it is in my view worse than the slow play in the first place. We must remember that a golf ball is a hard missile and we are legally responsible for any damage or injury our golf balls cause when we play. :-)

Cheers

Keith

Posted by Keith:

If a course decides that it will ignore the R&A Rules on solo players having equal standing now, isn't that in itself against the rules of golf? Obviously I appreciate that societies and competitions cannot let anyone play through, as this would interfere with their block movement around the course. No complaints from me there.

The rules and etiquette are two different things and the single player approval by the R & A comes under the etiquette section and it is entirely up to the club concerned as to whether they abide by this suggestion or not. In the main I would say that all private clubs will still have a single player having no standing.

Your suggestion that this etiquette statement by the R & A does not apply to all matches is defeating your own argument. Either single players have the right or they don't and no matter what the circumstances then they should be invited through.

Myself I don't think they should, I still stand in the no standing camp.

If this were a rule then it could not be waived, but it isn't, it is just something the R & A, in their infinite wisdom have declared should be incorporated into the etiquette of the game. Those clubs that don't agree, of which there will be many will not implement it, and the R & A can do nothing about it.

A properly run golf club does not even allow two ball matches to integrate with three/fourball matches for the same reasons of one group holding up the obviously faster group. There are allocated starting times for each kind of match and these are strictly adhered to, preventing all this trouble.

Of course in this day and age with all these new courses that have been built and are operated on a pay and play system, the object for the owners is money and how  much they can take in the till. They could not care less that a single or two ball is let out behind a series of fourballs causing totally unnecessary frustration for all.

Personally I never contribute to this situation as I know it will only spoil my own game.

Hypothetical question, John, if I may.

Just suppose you were playing in a four ball, which were playing on the slow side, and you had a clear hole in front and a single player directly behind having to wait all the time for you on the tee and on the green.  Would you not let that single person play through? 

I think he answered that with a yes earlier in the thread David.  Excuse the paraphrasing but something along the lines of not wanting to feel pressed, a feeling I don't like either. 

I must admit that I really don't mind a minor delay (couple of minutes per shot) as it means I relax and forget about the bad shots more easily. 

John,  you misunderstood me mate (or I confused the whole matter)... I don't have an argument with this, though I do see your point.  It does appear that I have misquoted something from the rules book as being a rule, rather than etiquette.

When I play solo and the course is empty I can get around in much less than 3 hours.  But I'm not upset if the course is busy and I get around in nearly 5 hours either. After all, I'm there to play golf, not to see how fast I can play.  I do my best to respect other player's needs to play their game at their pace and I try my best not to make them feel pressure from behind.  It is often this attitude that puts me in their good favour and gets me called through with good feeling all around.  But again if I don't get called through, no ill feelings from me.

You are quite right that some clubs do their own thing for their own purposes.  I am always confused by the rationale of any clubs that let large societies play at the weekends. They hardly need to drum up business during that period. 

Cheers

Keith 

David, you know I would let him through, but that does not mean I think it right for the single player to have equal standing or this will just cause too many problems with people arguing on the course over priority, when it is totally unnecessary.

With this rule in place every single player will just insist on going through the field as he will claim priority and that IMO is not what was intended and bear in mind that if he does have priority then he is entitled to go through any society, which as you know will cause a lot of problems.

Keith, I agree with you entirely, I too do not want the hassle on the course and have come to accept that the new modern golfer just does not seem to have any go in them and that is why we are now out on the course for up to five hours at a time and unable to play 36 holes in one day, which used to be the norm.

I never drive into anyone, I wait my turn patiently and feel that I am not a hindrance to my fellow players. I encourage them all the time as I like to see peple produce quality golf shots, after all this is what gets us coming back all the time.

There are many societies that understand what is expected of them when they visit a private club, but unfortunately I see too many who, quite honestly, should not be on the course. We all had to start but in my days when I learned to play, my only option was the public course and until I had joined a club and had a handicap of 24, I would have been refused a green fee at any other club.

I realise times have changed and attitudes are completely different from my day, but we are all on the course together and we should be tolerant of each other. I will say however that crap golf can still be played fast, I do it all the time.

It's OK John...I knew you would...Just wanted to clarify the point, as I thought some people assumed you wouldn't let a single player through for any reason whatsoever.

Personally, if there was a single player behind me and people in front of me, I wouldn't let him through as he has nowhere to go. 

Though I agree partly with you John, I feel the rule/etiquette/guide/whatever was included to stop stuffy gents (no, not you John) who are playing rather slowly and dropping holes behind refusing to let solo players play through.  This being snobbery based just because they are solo players and there is an old local rule stating that there is no standing for solo players on that course.

The new rule/etiquette/guide/whatever highlights the existing rule/etiquette/guide/whatever on slow play, but also highlights that it does not limit how many players it relates to.  If there is slow play and the group is falling behind the groups in front, they should consider letting the following players play through; even a solo player.  I personally feel this is targeting the local rule of 'no standing for solos players' and not up to the local club to ignore.  Players falling behind should let others play through; 4-balls, 3-balls, 2-balls, even solo's.  Why should good etiquette have a limiter on it?

Next topic for debate, women in the club house bar <running for cover> 

Keith...

Women in the bar....

No problem with that, as long as they are only there to serve the drinks and food.

Now, run like hell Keith...I'm coming t h r o u g hhhhh

Keith, I am quite sure that there are many old duffers of my era who have slowed down as they have aged, but it only requires one player in the fourball to dither about and the rest get tarnished with the same brush.

No one plays a shot faster than me, I can assure you. I don't have and never have had a pre shot routine and those members of this forum who have played with me will substantiate that, I am sure.

I have never been against women members of a golf being in the bar but there are many clubs that do not allow it, probably because in these clubs the ladies have their own room strictly for themselves. I find that women are no problem playing with as they are usually very straight and off their tees always seem to drive further than me anyway.

Don't take any notice of David, he is a real ladies man.

Stuffy gents aren't always old duffers.

Slow play and etiquette of slow play is not always age related.  In fact my father of 82 years is not a slow player, just a slow walker.  So when we play we often let people play through as it is good etiquette and good manners to do so (regardless of old outdated local club rules).

My Mum used to play and was once asked to leave a club bar after a society game due to no ladies being allowed in the bar.  The entire society membership left the bar in solidarity and the clubhouse lost a lot of money going over the bar that evening due to that. 

I'm sorry that I opened this thread.

I play every game as a single because I have no golf friends yet in the UK, and no one in my office plays.  I live in central London, and take my clubs on the tube and am lucky to have found one course that I can get to fairly easily.

So what's wrong with single golfers?  

Michael.....There is nothing wrong with single players at all....Well, that's my opinion. 

I have played many rounds  as a single...If it's busy, I use the time waiting to try different shots. I prefer doing this to spending hours at a practice range, hitting off mats does not compare to hitting  shots off tee and onto greens and  putting  on proper greens.

Have you tried seaching this site for players close to you?   I know of 5 players that would give you a game...Saddly, I won't be one of them as I live in Bournemouth. But I do get up to London from time to time.  Also, try putting your name down for one of the events. You will find people to play with easily.  Or, try asking at the club you play at if anybody wants to join you in a game 

I don't think the number of golfers matters.  If you are not up with play and the group behind, regardless of number, is being held up, you should let them through.  If you are holding up a single but are keeping up with play then there is no onus on you to let them through.  I believe this is what John is alluding to when saying singles should not be able to barge through the field and I totally agree.  You should let through any group you are holding up if you are not up with play. 

On a slightly different subject, I notice your avatar (or should that be aviator?) has you down as a Packers fan Michael.  Given that I cannot escape the circus surrounding a certain ex-player of yours over here in the US at the moment, what are your thoughts on seeing Mr Favre in a Jets uniform?  Saw a 10 year old boy wearing a replica Jets jersey with 'Favre' and '4' on it in New York today and it just looks weird.  At least it's still green; the purple of Minnesota had he got his own way would have been too much.

I don't think the number of golfers matters. If you are not up with play and the group behind, regardless of number, is being held up, you should let them through. If you are holding up a single but are keeping up with play then there is no onus on you to let them through. I believe this is what John is alluding to when saying singles should not be able to barge through the field and I totally agree. You should let through any group you are holding up if you are not up with play.

I agree 100%. What makes my blood boil is stuffy gents (nobody here of course) quoting an old fashion local rule. I once played a course and caught up with a big society. It was obviously going to be a slow day and I happily waited behind the last group of the society on a couple of tees when one of the group said that they could not ley me play through as they were in a society comp. No problem says I, I totally understand and I'm in no rush. Then one of them threw in "anyway, solo players have no standing on this course". What a rude pompus git!

Chris,

Slightly off topic, but realted to Favre and The Green Bay Packers....I grew up in Green Bay and my first job was working on the field and in the locker room during the Vince Lombardi/Bart Starr years and all the championships of that era.  Being 13 years old working for the Packers was unbelievable.  Both my father and uncle had worked for the Packers for 35 years.

It's a sin that Favre is wearing a different color uniform.  Sort of like trading Pele to me.  But somewhere in this mess, someone got really upset and it will be years before we ever know the truth, if ever. 

As for the comment above by Keith regarding "solo golfers have no standing"....if someone said that to me on a golf course, I'd probably break my Cameron over their thick skull.  Golfers who have that type of pompous attitude also don't have standing in my opinion and it would tell me a lot about what they are like in the business world...jerks to work with or for. 

And talk about slow play!  A few weeks ago, I'm playing as a solo at Trent Park.  These guys in front of me had an entire 2nd hole open in front of them and had yet to tee off when I got to the tee box.  Then they hit 4 shots into the river and start looking forever for their balls.  I stood on that box for a good 15 minutes.  The group behind me was 3 women and they had yet to join me on no.2!  The 3 in front were men and one of them was the club president from what the women told me later as they joined up with me.

The club president!!!  I've never seen such slow play in my life even from hackers who had no business being on a golf course.   But I'm sure they felt entiltled to play slow because they were playing "STRICTLY BY THE RULES" and were along with the club president.  Nothing like making a morning round at Trent Park go from 4 hours to 5.5 hours!  5.5 hours for an 8AM tee time is really sick.

I could have played through these idiots or joined them on the 2nd hole but nooooo....they just ignored me completey.  When the women finally caught up to me in the fairway of no. 2, they said they could not let me join them because they were in some stupid society competition.  I told them that they can play their game with me just as easily.  If they wanted me to go ahead and play on fine, but I the solo golfer gave two groups the chance to let me join them.

It took a full 30-40 minutes to play just one hole, no. 2 that day. Then to make matters worse, when I and the group behind me joined together, we finished no. 2 and these idiots in front of us were just teeing off on the par 3 3rd and their was no group within two holes of these morons playing with the club president.

Have not been back to Trent Park since.