Here's another one of my inane, meaningless questions.

At what point would using game inprovement irons start to reduce an individuals chances of improving?

I assume that a tour Pro if forced to play with a set of large cavity back's would play worse and would have a worse overall score then if he uses his blades/musclebacks/shallow cavity's.

Anyone been using big Cavity's and got better when changinig to something more of a players iron?

I know from my eairlier post you wont belive this, but.
I used to use MX17 with big cavaty backs which oviously i needed as i was learning, then about a month ago i changed to Mizuno mp 57 cut muscle which have improved my game no end im now shooting good rounds and my handicap has fallen to 24 and should be lower if i play to my potential.
Also slightly different i used to use a 13* nike driver to be more forgiving on the slice side. now i have changed to a tour burner 10*5 degree which is more forgiving and gives me 20-40 yards more distance than my old ones which makes a big difference for 2nd shots.

So i think there is a use for game improvement irons, they help with confidence when you first start but i think there comes a time when you need to change to improve more.

I've just relaced my Nike Slingshots (almost hybrids) with Srixon I-302 forged irons.  Supposed to be aimed at the mid-handicapper, I thought that I may struggle with them initially but I managed the back nine on Sunday 8 over gross 43, the best I've ever shot on that course.  I was hitting greens in regulation almost every hole and should've scored better but my putting was awful (five 3 putts on the 9) and I took 3 out of a bunker (grrrr). 

To my mind, once you are consistent with your swing and scoring, better irons will improve your game. 

Lets look at what you gain through using more 'players' type irons though.

The main thing has to be the ability to work the ball both ways and this I can understand as the point of the forgiving iron is to help straighten the ball rather then impart side spin on it (deliberate or not). I assume you guys being at the higher end of the handicpa are not yet working the ball intentionally (forgive me for this presumption)  and as such can't be benefitting from this.

Another area would be feel - I guess when using a better players Iron you know exactly where the ball hits the club face and could then adjust accordingly for the next shot ?

I can completey understand how these clubs would benefit from close in as they all seem to have improved feel.

What makes a set of clubs better than another set of clubs? Is it down to personal prefferrence again, with clubs that sit well at address and give good feedback through the hands after impact, breeding more confidence than the old set?

Chris, do you take large divots by any chance with your irons, especially your new Srixon irons?

good question. One that I have been thinking about myself as i look to change my irons.

Other benfits that i can see from so called "players" clubs are a more penetrating ball flight and also the increased control of trajectory. Most large cavity clubs tend to have very high flights and are easier to ballon more shots than blade stlye clubs. I can see that this has huge advantages when playing in the wind and overall distance control.

Again, these advantages seem to only apply to better players that would have ability carry these shots off.

You hear alot about how the pros have such creativity and imagination with their shots. My conclusion is that these clubs allow you to apply that shot making creavity as opposed to a one off standard type of ball flight that a large cavity might deliver.

I user maxfli revolution mid size forged irons  .I bought them as i thought i need to move on from my old Ping Eye 2s.   At first was very difficult to accept mishits mainly down to smaller heads and alot less offset,but it's definitely worth keeping at it.  i don't really work the ball much but when i need to i can draw the ball much better especially on low shots when trees get in the way. 

If you are getting better with your existing clubs i'd stick with them though until you are consistent and seeing no further changes, epscilly if you like offset heads as the smaller ones are very often much less offset.

I too have just replaced my Nike Slingshots with Mizuno MP32's, (Luke Donald uses them so I guess they are a players iron) and they are worlds apart. They're much lighter to swing, you can shape the ball more easily, the ball gets in the air very quickly (I never knew what that mean't before) and the feeling of striking the ball feels so much crisper. I've also changed to the Dymanic Steel Gold shafts as opposed to graphite stiff and it makes me wonder how I ever got to 14 (have been as low as 11 on this site but I don't hit the ball as well as most 11 handicappers I play with). I shot 76 a couple of weeks ago, its the first time I've broken 80 although I'm not putting that down to golfing prowess, probably just the 'joy of new'.

I got sucked into the 'Game Improvement Irons' blag 4 years ago and I do think that manufacturers are making golfers who seldom break 100 believe that they can 'buy' a great game. If you can swing the club, hit the ball, break 90 sometimes and know what you're doing to a certain extent, these irons will hold you back from playing the game to your true ability.

I'll answer several points/questions here, so apologies if I don't direct them straight at the person who asked. 

I found that with my slingshots I couldn't shape the ball unless I tried really hard and then it was extreme.  If I tried, it went where I wanted it to but in a straight line (a bit of an issue if there's a tree in the way!).  The Srixons I can shape through choice (and occaisionally not throught choice!) but I am still working on getting the 'feel' needed to control the amount.  I find that I tend to draw/hook, sometimes pull, instead of fade/slice now. 

I used to take a large divot, and this is one area where the slingshots helped as they have a wide sole.  I've only played with the Srixons twice but haven't had a problem with taking a large divot yet (touch wood).  This could be due to the lessons I've had recently though which has flattened and taken the 'arminess' out of my swing.  I've also had the Srixons custom fitted (shaft and lie). 

I started with Maxfli Revolutions and changed after 18 months to slingshots.  I felt they were an improvement and they helped me take around 6-8 shots off my game.  The Srixons feel a step better again, the feedback is superb due to the forged heads, they look like a proper heads and not hybrids when I look down on them.  I feel like I play better with them and have confidence that I'm going to hit them well and fingers crossed I hope they'll help get me to my 18 handicap target. 

Not being rude, Im purely interested in the point you're making especially as it could effect me. Should you be trying to shape the ball with anything like a 27.5 handicap , ( or indeed should I ?) is this the best way . I only ask as I play to about 24 and really only try to hit my irons as straight as possible and as consistantly as I can. I have started going round in 91 to 93 quite often now ( plus some 98 100's) and still dont see myself as anywhere near needing to shape iron shots to lower my score. I do shape my drives a bit though if the tee off is difficult but I only use a 3 wood off the tee anyway since I am a far longer hitter than I am skillfull player :P .  

My own opinion is that it is essential to have a ball flight that can be produced every time, as this leads to consistency. Personally I favour a slight draw and endeavour to produce this type of shot on every stroke, bar the odd ones that require something a little different.

When one tries to hit a shot straight then there is always the chance of it moving either left or right, which may be OK on some occasions but could put you in a bunker on other occasions. Far better to have a shape that you can depend on and then use the whole of the course to your advantage.

Chris,

You've obviously got too much disposable cash on your hands . We'll have to meet up one Friday so I can these new clubs in action.

John.

John F - They were a genuine bargain - even the missus agreed they were!  I'm available this Friday if you want.  Drop me a text. 

Mas - I agree with you to a point, and for the most part I am just aiming to get a consistent shot that I know will go in a straight line (and hopefully in the right direction!).  However, I'm sure you'll agree that a 20+ handicapper will find themselves in an unfavourable position on a regular basis.  For this reason, shaping shots along with punches, flops and high chips are of much more use to us than the player who can drop it in the middle of the fairway every time and hit the green in  regulation with a full swing approach.  To enable us to get out of trouble with the least possible penalty and hence lower our handicap, we need to master these shots.